Paladin vs Warrior - ARR better set roles!

[FedeMax]

And yes Quatre Paladins where great in the right situations. But as you say yourself there are occasions when Warriors are just better. Paladins are -only- good at tanking, and when their only good trait is flawed you've got a problem. Paladins should be able to evolve to the situation not the situation catered to Paladins.

Yes Paladins are good end game for some bosses, but there are too many events they are not. Your damage is ok... but.. meh.. I'll use aoe dps over here instead.

Exactly, even leveling Paladin was a pain compared to other classes unless you had your guild to help. Random grinding parties will take only one gladiator most of the time, at the 40+ parties; it was a maybe in my server since they all just wanted to go and aoe wolfs at the beast camp and prefer fast killing and aoes.

[Reika]

Exactly, even leveling Paladin was a pain compared to other classes unless you had your guild to help. Random grinding parties will take only one gladiator most of the time, at the 40+ parties; it was a maybe in my server since they all just wanted to go and aoe wolfs at the beast camp and prefer fast killing and aoes.

Lol yea, warrior was even more preferred in grind parties, because warrior can put hurt on all the mobs, and tank them at the same time. All paladin could do was AFK or backup heal. Maybe throw in a cover here and there (all I did). They certainly cant stance change to do damage when not tanking :/

[Shougun]

Exactly, even leveling Paladin was a pain compared to other classes unless you had your guild to help. Random grinding parties will take only one gladiator most of the time, at the 40+ parties; it was a maybe in my server since they all just wanted to go and aoe wolfs at the beast camp and prefer fast killing and aoes.

Almost every Paladin I ever talked to was powerleveled. Every paladin that talked about leveling (not powerleveled) said it was the most painful class to level, whm was easier to level solo.

I think just making Paladin have more damage abilities that relate to tanking or helping the party (like cover) and making warrior stay relatively about being rampaging (sort of how it is already) then we can have two tank classes both desirable for but play in different ways.

Like my zealous vigor example on the other page would work well solo, cast your defense spell then cast zealous vigor get a bunch of hate running through a camp shinning and then after loading up all the dps retribute their ass

[Kalsic]

I always saw Warrior as an AOE tank (high health, aoe weapon skill) while the Paladin was a solo tank (flash, whatever else they use) with much higher single target threat generation on single target monsters.

Maybe I'm wrong.

[KiraHime]

Stuff

You have some interesting ideas but the problem with just dumping more dps output on WAR is under the current enmity generation formulas will make it the tank of choice by default.

WAR had survivability to an extent but the ability to generate a massive chunk of enmity with an opening damage combo gave it a such a head start that most people automatically assumed it was the uber tank. PLD had much more constant enmity generating abilities so they could create a stable curve of growing emnity, rather than the rapid spiking that a WAR could pull off with their combos. Abolishing overcures just made PLD's job even harder and required more understanding from dps in how PLD mechanics worked so they wouldn't run in guns blazing and pull hate.

Now I don't want to sound like I'm saying that all people who tanked on WAR were stupid or less skilled than PLD tanks, just that PLD's had more of an uphill battle with 1.0's mechanics.

Hopefully 2.0 will see the abolishment of the current 1:1 damage:enmity ratio which will go a long way into making PLD the dominant tank and allowing WAR to be the dps powerhouse that it was. Like has been said before a job that can ONLY tank should always be dominant at the tanking role. WAR was a dps that COULD tank but having it tank almost solely via it's dps output was unbalanced to say the least.

TL;DR SE needs to tweak the enmity generation formulas not just throw abilities at us.

[FedeMax]

I always saw Warrior as an AOE tank (high health, aoe weapon skill) while the Paladin was a solo tank (flash, whatever else they use) with much higher single target threat generation on single target monsters.

Maybe I'm wrong.

That is why I would like to see PLD with higher HP than WAR and AOE Provoke skills, he can round all of the Mobs and keep the hate while the rest of the party can go DD crazy. WAR can get in there and do massive AOE damage while PLD just hold the Mobs.

[Shougun]

You have some interesting ideas but the problem with just dumping more dps output on WAR is under the current enmity generation formulas will make it the tank of choice by default.

WAR had survivability to an extent but the ability to generate a massive chunk of enmity with an opening damage combo gave it a such a head start that most people automatically assumed it was the uber tank. PLD had much more constant enmity generating abilities so they could create a stable curve of growing emnity, rather than the rapid spiking that a WAR could pull off with their combos. Abolishing overcures just made PLD's job even harder and required more understanding from dps in how PLD mechanics worked so they wouldn't run in guns blazing and pull hate.

Now I don't want to sound like I'm saying that all people who tanked on WAR were stupid or less skilled than PLD tanks, just that PLD's had more of an uphill battle with 1.0's mechanics.

Hopefully 2.0 will see the abolishment of the current 1:1 damage:enmity ratio which will go a long way into making PLD the dominant tank and allowing WAR to be the dps powerhouse that it was. Like has been said before a job that can ONLY tank should always be dominant at the tanking role. WAR was a dps that COULD tank but having it tank almost solely via it's dps output was unbalanced to say the least.

TL;DR SE needs to tweak the enmity generation formulas not just throw abilities at us.

Oh yeah I agree, thats why I said also give Paladins more dps ability, mostly relating to being a rock wall.

Like my example of the warrior was shrugging the damage turning damage into a DoT means that he has time to recover rather then being face rolled, but he still takes it (which is important because then he can also balance staying in the yellow for critical bonuses - which would benefit a lot of his other spells). However the Paladin would get spells about eating it up, through defense mitigation spells - or dps spells that say alright throw it at me I dare you I'm going to woop your ass with your own megaflare.

In this way both jobs have dps and tanking ability but within different play styles. So not only should Paladin be able to do a lot of stuff it normally cant but that there is no reason to not have other tank jobs.

[Quatre]

they already said there is no switching jobs in a dungeon

As for changing jobs in dungeons being possible or not, they're thinking it'll be good to be able to change in between content.

that was the exact words of the non official translation of the magazine article concerning this. This isn't definite yet, although it does imply that they are leaning towards NOT allowing it. Not 100% yet though. If you have another source will <3 you longtime..

[xXHalloweenTrixXx]

I liked the option of WAR and PLD as tanks but I really think PLD should have higher HP and possibly better defense or at least provide them with higher DPS so they can be at least balanced with War.

Warrior was pretty much the only tank I've seen in any of the parties I've played in on my server. Because most people reply was.. Why get a Paladin when Warrior is just as good if not better.

I played PLD it was fun imo, most fun I've had with a class. But its not really asked for by people from what I saw.

[Kalsic]

That is why I would like to see PLD with higher HP than WAR and AOE Provoke skills, he can round all of the Mobs and keep the hate while the rest of the party can go DD crazy. WAR can get in there and do massive AOE damage while PLD just hold the Mobs.

You're killing off Warrior tanks that why. Why should someone have to play a Paladin just because they want to tank?