Speculation on how jobs will change

[Uriahnool]

Well, I guess what bothered me the most is toward the end I saw a lot of people shouting for "experienced" players only for boss fights, or fights where they need exactly two WHM, two BLM, two MRD and two LNC or something like that. It would take a long time to find the right party. I understand the need for a tank, healers, and damage dealers. I don't know if it was the boss fight environment itself or how the classes were limited, but it just seemed like it should be easier to dive into a fight without prior knowledge of the battle and still be able to muster a win. Something was limiting the parties. If there are going to be instanced dungeons and a lot more new players coming into the game, there needs to be more freedom in the classes.

For example: If your WHM died (which is entirely possible because they have low defense) nobody is able to cure or raise and then everyone else dies pretty quick afterwards. On Ifrit, people were opting to go in as THM instead of BLM so they could have a raise ability. They shouldn't have to do this, but should either have raise still available, or an item to raise.

One good example I have is FF Tactics, where you could go into battle with a variety of classes and sort of compensate for some classes by using the strengths of others. Instead of using a BLM and nuking the enemy, you could use time magic and slow down the enemy to get in more hits, or you could use an archer and disable the enemy with some strategic shots. Instead of a WHM for curing poison or using shell/protect - an alchemist could throw a lunar curtain or a remedy around or a mega-potion to cure the party. Instead of a tank taking all the hate and damage, maybe a strategy where two or three lancers have turns with hate and divide the damage among them.

[Reika]

They definantly need to add phoenix downs. that company tonic thing is silly. They should just sell phoenix downs.

[SodRansom]

Well, I guess what bothered me the most is toward the end I saw a lot of people shouting for "experienced" players only for boss fights, or fights where they need exactly two WHM, two BLM, two MRD and two LNC or something like that. It would take a long time to find the right party. I understand the need for a tank, healers, and damage dealers. I don't know if it was the boss fight environment itself or how the classes were limited, but it just seemed like it should be easier to dive into a fight without prior knowledge of the battle and still be able to muster a win. Something was limiting the parties. If there are going to be instanced dungeons and a lot more new players coming into the game, there needs to be more freedom in the classes.

For example: If your WHM died (which is entirely possible because they have low defense) nobody is able to cure or raise and then everyone else dies pretty quick afterwards. On Ifrit, people were opting to go in as THM instead of BLM so they could have a raise ability. They shouldn't have to do this, but should either have raise still available, or an item to raise.

One good example I have is FF Tactics, where you could go into battle with a variety of classes and sort of compensate for some classes by using the strengths of others. Instead of using a BLM and nuking the enemy, you could use time magic and slow down the enemy to get in more hits, or you could use an archer and disable the enemy with some strategic shots. Instead of a WHM for curing poison or using shell/protect - an alchemist could throw a lunar curtain or a remedy around or a mega-potion to cure the party. Instead of a tank taking all the hate and damage, maybe a strategy where two or three lancers have turns with hate and divide the damage among them.

I just want to make sure I understand what you're saying. Because what it seems like is that you're saying that there should be more variety in roles, like whm isn't the only kind of healer, and pld isn't the only kind of tank and then I would agree, although it couldn't happen until there were more classes/jobs created. I would love that actually, that sort of variety is one thing that's attractive to me about the ff series.

But if you're saying that every class/job should be able to do all things, like every class being able to raise AND heal AND do damage, then I don't agree with that. It removes the identity from each job and waters them down too much. Each job should have its specialty and be made to excel in that area, and that way players can choose who they want to be. If I choose to have white mage be my main its because I know that I like healing people. I don't want to join a party and be expected to tank because white mage has that ability. Or same with dd, I don't want to have to be expected to be the main healer. Others might disagree, they might like jobs to be more versatile, but I'd just put my vote against that.

[Nayto]

Something that doesn't make all fights a BLM burnfest. And make the DDs more unique of eachother than just having them as warm bodies to fill a party.

[Reika]

I also hope that they finally make the difference between class and job clear. For example, switching from gladiator to Paladin should greatly lower damaging ability while greatly increasing enmity gain and defense to over-compensate for the loss (Paladin gains an overal 10% more enmity from attacks than gladiator when all the calculations are done).

A lot of people have been calling for the removal of classes because in 1.0 there was almost no difference between classes and jobs. I hope they remedy it in ARR, not by removing classes either.

[Altena]

Well, I guess what bothered me the most is toward the end I saw a lot of people shouting for "experienced" players only for boss fights, or fights where they need exactly two WHM, two BLM, two MRD and two LNC or something like that. It would take a long time to find the right party. I understand the need for a tank, healers, and damage dealers.

Not *entirely* true but yes I do agree the standard tank/whm/dd setup is conventional. Nothing is stopping you from running into Ifrit with 8 Paladins, slowly hacking away at him, ignoring nails then popping hallowed ground during Hellfire and what not, but that is not conventional or by any means optimal. It truly depends on a player's playstyle. As long as it works, there is nothing stopping a group from doing this sort of thing.

I don't know if it was the boss fight environment itself or how the classes were limited, but it just seemed like it should be easier to dive into a fight without prior knowledge of the battle and still be able to muster a win. Something was limiting the parties. If there are going to be instanced dungeons and a lot more new players coming into the game, there needs to be more freedom in the classes.

I see it as more of a community expectation that "certain fights require certain jobs" however that community expectation is based on strategies that are widely known and can be best described as "the conventional way to win". For example, from time to time we have done some fights (I don't like giving too many details about my experience on here) with stacked DD such as MNK or DRG on fights that are usually BLM burned and they are quite successful ways of winning. I think it simply comes down to how well players interact / gel with each other as I mentioned previously.

There is some content that is truly best to stick to optimal setups but in the end an optimal setup is what works for you and your group, which is not necessarily the conventional "way of doing things".

For example: If your WHM died (which is entirely possible because they have low defense) nobody is able to cure or raise and then everyone else dies pretty quick afterwards. On Ifrit, people were opting to go in as THM instead of BLM so they could have a raise ability. They shouldn't have to do this, but should either have raise still available, or an item to raise.

It is a good habit to get into to always carry raise pots on you - regardless if they are called Phoenix downs or GC tonics but it's just smart play. Getting quick at using them on a dead WHM is always good practise as well. I am not on here for a lesson, but merely pointing out that there are ways around giving each class a more definitive role.

One good example I have is FF Tactics, where you could go into battle with a variety of classes and sort of compensate for some classes by using the strengths of others. Instead of using a BLM and nuking the enemy, you could use time magic and slow down the enemy to get in more hits, or you could use an archer and disable the enemy with some strategic shots. Instead of a WHM for curing poison or using shell/protect - an alchemist could throw a lunar curtain or a remedy around or a mega-potion to cure the party. Instead of a tank taking all the hate and damage, maybe a strategy where two or three lancers have turns with hate and divide the damage among them.

I would like a *little* more diversity in jobs, as you mentioned above but I just worry that diversifying too much will close the gap to adding more original classes later. I am all for more supportive roles, as I believe XI was a prime example of "supportive" jobs (such as BRD/COR etc). The only issue here is you don't want these supportive roles taking the flame from the specialist roles an aweful lot - like what we saw in XI for a while when nobody wanted a WHM to heal, it was all about the infinite MP pool of a RDM.

I think the key to achieving this idealistic mentality that you would like to see is finding a fairly regular group that has both job diversity and skill on a personal level (players are able to step into multiple jobs aside from their mains), grinding through content with them until you get efficient at a particular content, and then opening up your minds to some experimenting. Not only does this make each person in that party a better, more diverse, skilled player - but it is also loads of fun! In the end this is what the games are all about.

I personally don't feel that diversifying jobs is the answer to this issue, as I believe they need more distinctive traits and abilities that define them as a job. After all, the armory system is in place for this diversification to begin with. You are playing a character with multiple skills to begin with.

Finally I know you don't like this as the answer but classes are still an option. While jobs like DRG or MNK gets a heavy DPS hit when switching to a class, classes like THM are still quite a powerful casting class, as you only miss out on a couple of situational spells and a larger MP pool. They are still functional and pack enough punch if you truly need to have that extra cure, raise or AOE sanguine.

Each to their own though, opinions are valued.

*edit* wholly bidjesus I didn't think this post was actually this long when typing it...

[Altena]

WHM, BLM, Both

Big ups for the mages. I am a bit of a traditionalist in a sense and would much rather see BLM get back to being the elemental caster, and WHM the healer. Give stone/aero/water to BLM, throw in Quake, Flood, Tornado. If the spell list is starting to get "too large" then remove a few of their mediocre abilities.

I do hope it and every other job has some kind of buff it can share with the party that no other Job can do, in order to encourage balanced play.

The only problem I see with this is you will end up (like in some fights) having a job for the sake of having that buff, so you are effectively nerfing someone's fun due to a party wide effect. BRD unfortunately falls victim to this in dungeons (as an example) with songs. They usually get stuck on chest duty which isn't really a fun job in comparison to the others after the 2738123789123th time.

WAR:

Yes, just yes. 100%

PLD:
Hoping they changed the spirits within combo from being phalanx -> SW to fast blade - flat blade - spirits within.

Well considering that a lot of abilities have changed, along with the combo system - I am sure you got your wish, or at least a less strict one. Phalanx has a very strict parameter that was more often then not force triggered.

DRG:
The main thing I hope for is Dragonfire dive, dispite sounding like a fire attack, will become non-elemental. Not being able to use your ultimate skill because it will be absorbed or resisted based on the monsters element is a balance flaw in my eyes. I liked what I saw from the video however and hope more great things are in store.

Yes please !

BRD:
..................I never liked how they did this job :/ A bow class that doesn't do as much damage as it should because its musical support. I wish they had just put an 8th class for this instead of what they did and made archer go to Ranger....[/QUOTE]

ARC can be quite powerful in certain fights, in fact BRD can do a fairly solid amount too if they aren't doing any form of support. Certainly not as heavy as a straight DD class but I do think to balance the job they need to nerf some of this damage otherwise they will just end up too high in demand. This is the one area I would like to see diversity start playing a part. Support jobs should have a little bit of diversity in order to hold the more defined roles together. I personally believe they nailed it, as it does give room to breath for Ranger if they ever decide to introduce it.

[Fantasia]

BRD:
..................I never liked how they did this job :/ A bow class that doesn't do as much damage as it should because its musical support. I wish they had just put an 8th class for this instead of what they did and made archer go to Ranger....

I think this is a bit of an unfair summary. I mained BRD and with the right gear it was stupidly powerful. Even if it wasn't, ranged classes shouldn't be as powerful as their melee counterparts, solely for the fact that they're usually out of range of 90% of attacks. The exception obviously being BLM, but they have MP to make their output fairly limited.

Besides, in other FFs, a Ranger's weapon of choice is a crossbow, so there's still room for a more DD ranged-class out there.

[Reika]

I think this is a bit of an unfair summary. I mained BRD and with the right gear it was stupidly powerful. Even if it wasn't, ranged classes shouldn't be as powerful as their melee counterparts, solely for the fact that they're usually out of range of 90% of attacks. They exception obviously being BLM, but they have MP to make their output fairly limited.

Besides, in other FFs, a Ranger's weapon of choice is a crossbow, so there's still room for a more DD ranged-class out there.

Well then they will never add Ranger or any other ranged DPS if it should never be compareable to melee dps. Ranger in XI wasn't a weak job at all and was majorly perferred over the melee ones. Its also saying they should greatly reduce black mages damage output to be below melees because they can attack from afar.

[Fantasia]

Well then they will never add Ranger or any other ranged DPS if it should never be compareable to melee dps. Ranger in XI wasn't a weak job at all and was majorly perferred over the melee ones. Its also saying they should greatly reduce black mages damage output to be below melees because they can attack from afar.

Wait, what? I'm saying that they ARE likely to add RNG as a more damage outputting version of the ARC. And I'm not saying that BLM output should be reduced, because they are already limited by having an MP pool. One big splurdge of spells and they're out for a bit.