CG Midlander

[Anonymoose]

But the Primals are totally different from that. We could still have Anima or whatever other ff summon really.

I believe the Primals are akin to the Titans; but you're right - we could cram any deity in there we wanted to. We just might have to mess around with the Virgin Mary themed necklace on Anima. XD

[NoloeTazier]

I think that Anima theory is a perfect example of how we ended up at Siren for Echo-giver in the past; it just fits so well now, doesn't it!?

I still think it's most likely that the primal that scared the Empire out of Eorzea at the border of The Black Shroud is the new Black Shroud Resident Primal ... Odin.

Not that I'm not dying to see Anima turn up in something again; though she's extremely heavily based in Catholic lore (See: Anima Sola), as was most of FFX, so I imagine it would be hard to pin her in the ancient Greek-based Eorzea.

I think if Odin had been around in 1.0, we would have heard rumors the Woodwailers, Sylphs, or Garleans. Now having said that, the closet 'people' to the north east shroud which we can guess connects to Gyr Abania and Ala Mhigo are the Sylphs. If any primal would have been 'summoned' or forcibly entered the land (sometime after the Battle of Silvertear Skies?) would be Ramuh or whatever the Sylphs primal is going to be. I assume Ramuh because of the Primal Poster. Maybe the reason they talk ill of their primal is because they saw what Ramuh did and what a primal is capable of when it's summoned.

Just a guess, atleast until Beta.

[Digirotta]

Found a little interesting piece of Nordic mythology regarding that horn, which i'm not sure has been picked up yet.

She knows that Heimdall's horn is hidden
under the heaven-bright holy tree.
A river she sees flow, with foamy fall,
from Valfather's pledge.
Understand ye yet, or what?

That would nicely support the thought of finding Odin in the Gridania region. Why? Because;

Mim's sons dance,
but the central tree takes fire,
at the resounding Giallar-horn.
Loud blows Heimdall,
his horn is raised; Odin speaks with Mim's head.

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gjallarhorn

Meaning, finding the horn of Heimdall, we might be able to summon Odin.

What really irks me, is the fact, that we got ascians running loose, and presumably they seem to have that horn, as it was taken from Stahlmann by Travanchet, who has no shadow.

Do correct me, if i'm making hasty judgements or something has been proven different, as i'm not experienced with lore-dwelling, i sipmly happened to stumble upon this, and wish to share it and learn more.

//edit:
I'd also like to add, that during the cutscene with Ifrit, where the main character goes to establish an alliance with primals with his/her adventuring fellow, Ifrit says, that
"I smell taint upon your soul. Is it Garuda... or Titan? Perchance... Leviathan?"
These primals have already been appointed to be primals of existing Beastmen races, and soon after the Sylphs that were also present, feel very intrigued by the fact, that mankind would also be able to summon a Primal of their own. Which in this theory, would be Odin.

[Anonymoose]

If any primal would have been 'summoned' ... it would be Ramuh or whatever the Sylphs primal is going to be.

This is another possibility; I mentioned it in the list of suspects way way way back, but eventually I discarded the idea because when you take into account that (A) the sylphs are still peaceful, friendly creatures that preach never summoning primals due to the way they darken hearts and make tribes violent, and (B) Odin's home is the Shroud. It just seems to carry slightly more statistical weight. You never know, though. Maybe they just did it that one time?

Meaning, finding the horn of Heimdall, we might be able to summon Odin.

Wow! Regardless of whether or not it ties into the plot, that's a great find - and one that would tie a few loose ends together, were it correct. Awesome contribution (^u^)b

The biggest strength of your case is the timing. We know the Garlean invasion of Mor Dhona took on Midgardsormr 10 years ago, 5 years after the conquering of Ala Mhigo. And we know that Midgardsormr isn't what convinced them to turn back - a legitimate primal was.

The echoes of the main storyline introductions for each city seem to be about ten years past, shortly after the Battle of Silvertear Skies. This is when Y'shtola loses the horn.

If you're correct, then Midgardsormr's death caused Swallowtail Roam (Seal Rock) to rise, and with it the Sea Serpent and the Treasure (Horn), which would have been stolen from Y'shtola / Sthalmann only weeks later during the initial post-Silvertear investigation of Eorzea by the Circle of knowing.

This would have occurred BEFORE the Garleans encountered the primal and AFTER the horn was stolen.

You've got a serious shot at being onto something, there, sir.

These primals have already been appointed to be primals of existing Beastmen races, and soon after the Sylphs that were also present, feel very intrigued by the fact, that mankind would also be able to summon a Primal of their own. Which in this theory, would be Odin.

This is something we've toyed with on and off. To sum it up for you so you don't have to dig through all the pages, primals appear to be like the Titans of ancient Greece; "old gods" (primordial deities, daemons, etc.) that come from, to quote the sylphs, "amongst the aether" and beyond the void. Seemingly, they take root in our physical reality and cross the veil by attaching themselves to an isolated society and building a cult with themselves at the center, exchanging gifts of power and protection in exchange for worship and aether (which is how they maintain physical form in our world).

This has a dual effect - the society that has been turned into a cult grows violent, arrogant, and powerful, whereas the deity becomes obsessive and paranoid about controlling as much aether as possible while preventing any competition. Garuda and the Ixal are one of the more extreme examples of out-of-control primalism.

I'm sure Ifrit can smell his own - so whatever is taking an interest in us might very well be of the old ways; a primal, a mothercrystal, something. So whom? Siren made a lot of sense of a little while... it could be Odin, as well. Each tribe seems to have an element except for the Dragons and the Woken Races (Hyur, Miqo'te, etc.) so this would be a great Astral v. Umbral relationship.

What I'm interested in is what the Garleans are up to. They VERY CLEARLY want aether despite claiming to desire the annihilation of the primals. My theory is that they crave the destruction of all primals but their own; a primordial essence fused with Garlean magitek built in the method of the Allagan - Alexander.

But where does that leave Siren, of whom we have concept art?! OH MAN, GOOD TIMES ARE COMING.

[HiirNoivl]

I love this thread.

So the Ascian may have used the horn to summon Odin against the Garleans.

Is there more than one of these horns/summoning objects? If so, then maybe thats what Siren would be attached to, one of these.

I wonder if there are.. twelve?

[HiirNoivl]

Also there is a chance that Odin is the Ascian primal and we still have siren

[Digirotta]

Thanks for your encouraging input, Anonymoose!

I realize it's a potshot, and i really haven't delved into any other storylines, than of Limsa's. I haven't actually looked deeper into the lore until lately, and i'm amazed by all the small things i haven't noticed before. I think it's because i never realized when i started playing, that a lot of the cutscenes in the early storyline consisted of echoes of the past. That left me confused and ignorant of most parts of the whole main story.

I've got a lot more potshots ready (like, if legacy members given a mark/tattoo of our earlier efforts ingame, are Y'shtola, Thancred and that merry Gridanian couple also sent from the past to our time, and, if Urianger was declared as a temporary person, would that make him a woken one, that was merely experiencing an echo?) and i was wondering, before i start unloading them, is there any other sources of speculations i should look into, than this thread? I'd hate to go wild on something, only to notice that those matters have already been discussed earlier elsewhere.

[Anonymoose]

I'd hate to go wild on something, only to notice that those matters have already been discussed earlier elsewhere.

Honestly, that's usually inevitable, lol. The hardest thing to do is differentiate between unsolved questions of the past and unresolved storylines that still have exposition in the future. This thread was formed to close the case on a situation like the latter, and since then we keep going into the former. All part of the fun, I guess.

I do hope that as time goes on, we are able to resolve all of the non-upcoming things in Loremonger, which'll be quite a task, indeed.

[Seraphe]

Also there is a chance that Odin is the Ascian primal and we still have siren

No shadow here as well, none of the primals have one though.

I have watched the Odin scene about 50 times now. To my eyes it looks like Odin does NOT have a shadow. A reflection in the water, yes. But NO shadow. I could be mistaken.

[Anonymoose]

I have watched the Odin scene about 50 times now. To my eyes it looks like Odin does NOT have a shadow. A reflection in the water, yes. But NO shadow. I could be mistaken.

As much as I'd like to say that this must just be because he's in the darkness of The Black Shroud... the only thing I can bring myself to say is, "Hm! Well... look at that. He does not."

...

Huh.

Interesting...