Shiva model!

[EinSoFZ]

That "this is a WIP" was added after Ferne responded to everyone.

And even then there is no logical reasoning why someone would -expect- those colors to be there and not be the real ones unless they were told it was so the modelers eyes dont burst - which was something I always wondered anyways (how do they look at a big gray block for so long and not cry) lol.

"It doesn't look like the concept art"

Isn't sufficient reason to think those are not the real colors

"It doesn't look like X"

Isn't sufficient reason to think those are not the real colors

"Its in alpha"

Isn't sufficient reason to think those are not the real colors

Literally - its not obvious.

People with experience in that realm may know whats going on (and a few politely described it, thank you to those people ), and then there are people who like to assume their opinions are facts "obvious because I feel so".

So can we attribute the actual issue here to ignorance? Fernehalwes stated what program this was created in. To me, and I guess this could just be an opinion, people could have googled ZBrush and what normal map sculpt data is to find out that it's still a very early version with limited uses and applications. Actually, just googled the creation of a 3D image form start to finish and educate one's self.

Perhaps the real question would've been: What evidence or reasoning suggested those ARE the real colors? (this would've been before Fernehalwes had to come clear up the apparent misunderstanding). There would've been little evidence suggesting they are and more leading us to believe that they weren't. Ignorance can be a reason, but it's not an excuse.

This is all old news, but I see holes in your logic.

[Shougun]

So can we attribute the actual issue here to ignorance? Fernehalwes stated what program this was created in. To me, and I guess this could just be an opinion, people could have googled ZBrush and what normal map sculpt data is to find out that it's still a very early version with limited uses and applications. Actually, just googled the creation of a 3D image form start to finish and educate one's self.

Perhaps the real question would've been: What evidence or reasoning suggested those ARE the real colors? (this would've been before Fernehalwes had to come clear up the apparent misunderstanding). There would've been little evidence suggesting they are and more leading us to believe that they weren't. Ignorance can be a reason, but it's not an excuse.

This is all old news, but I see holes in your logic.

Good to see you have holes in your logic

There is no "real question if those "are the real colors"". If you see a model, even a WIP model, you would expect in the future what you will see as an improvement but in a general sense not a 180.

Without knowing the personal points like "mah eyes are frying" there is no reason to assume they would color a model differently then what it actually will be (like I said some people informed us on this process (and other related processes) and Fern doubled up on it).

[EinSoFZ]

Good to see you have holes in your logic

There is no "real question is those "are the real colors"". If you see a model, even a WIP model, you would expect what you see will be improved on in a general sense but that a WIP doesnt do a 180.

Without knowing the personal points like "mah eyes are frying" there is no reason to assume they would color a model differently then what it actually will be.

Again, that's an ignorance thing. If people had looked up what 3D art creation involves after Ferne directly stated what this Shiva was and how it was created, it would've avoided confusion. If you see a model, don't assume you know what you're looking at or what stage it's in and if you're told what you're looking at and don't know what that means you might want to find out before you assume.

Why can't you do a 180 in the creation process? Changing color is as easy as clicking a button. Artists often use placeholder colors and other things before they implement the true and actual colors. That aspect isn't even specific to the 3D process. Topically speaking, I think it's more reasonable to assume they'd stick to their own design, which is finished, than do a 180 and make the final look like what we see now. But that's just me.

[Shougun]

Again, that's an ignorance thing. If people had looked up what 3D art creation involves after Ferne directly stated what this Shiva was and how it was created, it would've avoided confusion. If you see a model, don't assume you know what you're looking at or what stage it's in and if you're told what you're looking at and don't know what that means you might want to find out before you assume.

Why can't you do a 180 in the creation process? Changing color is as easy as clicking a button. Artists often use placeholder colors and other things before they implement the true and actual colors. That aspect isn't even specific to the 3D process. Topically speaking, I think it's more reasonable to assume they'd stick to their own design, which is finished, than do a 180 and make the final look like what we see now. But that's just me.

Even if you looked it up, like I did it wouldn't change much. When I read - no where did it say "color it like you dont want it to look like". Also if you see something, even if you dont understand it, you can comment on it as much as you want (I bet more then 80% of the items sitting next to you right now you can't explain fully, including the how to use, how to make, and how its derivatives are formed - yet you probably have made a comment about all of them Like "windows sux, or rox").

I dont know a thing about making movies, I'd probably make one of the worst movies ever - but that doesnt mean I cant say a movie was really bad, the camera work was horrible, ect ect.

You can do a 180 in the process, but it isn't expected - and you would even less expect someone to do it on purpose (not that the whole of shiva is a 180 but changing her from a humanoid likeness to freezy ice is a big change in color scheme).


A lack of knowledge in the subject matter did affect the conversation, but it is indeed a perfectly good excuse. Now if only the side that didnt know just commented on the model and not so much on the colors and the people that did know stop acting like everyone is such a damn noob and should be ashamed (not everyone fits either category, like there are many who took back some of their comments after learning more and some that just kept on making pictures and teaching).

"No its not an excuse" I hope you can follow this (going to make it corny ):

Aliens come to earth and will let the world live if you can shoot a soda can 100 feet away the first time. However, never shooting a gun before you fail and the world dies. Your ignorance cost the world its life. IT is however not expected you could have done it because you didnt know how, therefore it is a perfectly valid excuse.

So two fold - you dont need to know everything in order to talk about it, and ignorance -can- be an excuse.

[EinSoFZ]

Even if you looked it up, like I did it wouldn't change much. When I read - no where did it say "color it like you dont want it to look like". Also if you see something, even if you dont understand it, you can comment on it as much as you want (I bet more then 80% of the items sitting next to you right now you can't explain fully, including the how to use, how to make, and how its derivatives are formed - yet you probably have made a comment about all of them Like "windows sux, or rox").

I dont know a thing about making movies, I'd probably make one of the worst movies ever - but that doesnt mean I cant say a movie was really bad, the camera work was horrible, ect ect.

You can do a 180 in the process, but it isn't expected - and you would even less expect someone to do it on purpose (not that the whole of shiva is a 180 but changing her from a humanoid likeness to freezy ice is a big change in color scheme).


A lack of knowledge in the subject matter did affect the conversation, but it is indeed a perfectly good excuse. Now if only the side that didnt know just commented on the model and not so much on the colors and the people that did know stop acting like everyone is such a damn noob and should be ashamed (not everyone fits either category, like there are many who took back some of their comments after learning more and some that just kept on making pictures and teaching).

"No its not an excuse" I hope you can follow this (going to make it corny ):

Aliens come to earth and will let the world live if you can shoot a soda can 100 feet away the first time. However, never shooting a gun before you fail and the world dies. Your ignorance cost the world its life. IT is however not expected you could have done it because you didnt know how, therefore it is a perfectly valid excuse.

So two fold - you dont need to know everything in order to talk about it, and ignorance -can- be an excuse.

Now I'm not saying that people can't discuss it or that their input isn't valuable if they're not very knowledgeable at all. I'm only saying that before people got all up in arms and quite literally got mad she looked this way, a little self-education would've gone a long way. The color scheme chosen to ease it on the eyes was completely the artist's choice. People who are ignorant shouldn't jump to conclusions....from what I saw that was the problem. They colored her like that so obviously they've chosen to use this new color design for her! That's not like Shiva at all!

Artists do 180's all the time. They generally don't do them when there is an official design they are following. Yes, they're going to make her cape red when it's white in the official design. That'd be like making Garuda pink and then having all of this artwork around where she's green (they could actually make Garuda pink with a few clicks). Contradictory.

It's tough to explain my thought process on the matter, but to me it's like 1 + 1 = 2. When I look at the other primals, I saw that they strictly followed the 2D complete design; same colors, same hair/face/etc. appears in the final 3D image we saw in the game. That combined with a little knowledge about 3D creation just led me to believe it couldn't possibly be anything more than a WIP that would be changed from colors to resolution. In a way it's like people were saying SE wasn't even going to stick to their own design based on nothing more than this preview.

I see your intent with your example on ignorance, but if ignorance is an excuse it's a really bad one however accurate or unavoidable it was. Sometimes it's unavoidable to be ignorant since no one knows everything and there's no time to learn what you're dealing with. In the case of this thread, there's no alien force putting the gun to people before they reply