@Devs: Please allow us to travel at will between servers.

[Alhanelem]

You already demonstrated that you know nothing about the topic (according to you this solution didn't even exist), so I'm sorry if I won't exactly take a cost assessment from you

Subjective. I've demonstrated plenty of knowledge of the topic, you simply don't agree with it. There's a difference. Stop being rude/inflammatory.

Server systems are modular. The bigger cost is in creating the core system, not in adding more modules to fit a higher population.

They are only modular if you designed them to be modular. And even when they are, it still takes work to extend and upgrade them. You seem to be using "server systems" to simply mean the machines the servers run on. But it's not just about the hardware, it's also about the software. When you've programmed the server software to work one way, then the players come in and cry "no, make it work THIS way, dammit" then if they want to do it they have to rewrite their software, not just buy more hardware and plug it in.

So yeah, Apple to Oranges, but feel free to continue denying it. It's not like it's not evident that you're grasping at straws anyway.

I'm not grasping at any straws. I'm using reasonable logic while you're resorting to various forms of fallacy. Do be sure to let me know when you can have a sensible logical conversation- that will come when you are able to objectively analyze the two situations presented and see that they do have close similarities and a valid comparison can be made between them. That's what I'll hope for, but what i'll probably get is just another "lolurwrong, gtho"

A single worldwide server network for a game has only been done successfully by a few well known games. I think EVE is the only really successful one I can name off the top of my head. Developing this is not a simple task despite arguments to the contrary. People in this thread would ask that SE essentially abandon all the work they spent developing the new server software and redo it again to utilize a decentralized worldwide network system or ingame server migration system. That's more than likely a massive request and given SE's current situation, it's extremely unrealistic to expect them to make such a major change this late in the ball game.

[Abriael]

Subjective. I've demonstrated plenty of knowledge of the topic, you simply don't agree with it. There's a difference. Stop being rude/inflammatory.

You didn't even know that this was already done (despite having been told, multiple times). I'd say this pretty much shows how much you know about this kind of techology.

So yeah. I doubt you are in any position to make a cost assessment on this system.

They are only modular if you designed them to be modular. And even when they are, it still takes work to extend and upgrade them. You seem to be using "server systems" to simply mean the machines the servers run on. But it's not just about the hardware, it's also about the software. When you've programmed the server software to work one way, then the players come in and cry "no, make it work THIS way, dammit" then if they want to do it they have to rewrite their software, not just buy more hardware and plug it in.

No, I'm talking about the software. And if Square Enix (or any other MMORPG developer) didn't design their systems to be modular, then they are incompetent (and I doubt they are), because you never know how successful your game can be, and you always should prepare in advance for a possible surge in playerbase.

Mind you, that's exactly how they do it. In addition to that, the server structure and netcode of ARR already involves data transfer and intercommunication between servers. Otherwise it wouldn't have a cross server dungeon finder. The base of the system is already in place.

I'm not grasping at any straws. I'm using reasonable logic while you're resorting to various forms of fallacy

I don't need to "resort" to fallacy, as your arguments are fallacious in themselves. Denying obvious differences to prove a false point doesn't exactly do your arguments any favor.

A single worldwide server network for a game has only been done successfully by a few well known games. I think EVE is the only really successful one I can name off the top of my head. Developing this is not a simple task despite arguments to the contrary. People in this thread would ask that SE essentially abandon all the work they spent developing the new server software and redo it again to utilize a decentralized worldwide network system or ingame server migration system. That's more than likely a massive request and given SE's current situation, it's extremely unrealistic to expect them to make such a major change this late in the ball game.

You continue forgetting the fact that the game's server system already has a worldwide network system. Having decentralized servers has nothing to do with the actual infrastructure, and communication between those servers.

Even just the login system is common between servers of all regions, and the fact that the game will have a cross-server dungeon finder that will *already* allow players of different servers to play together, means that the base is already in place.

Your theory that implies the necessity of a whole do-over of the system is a gross exaggeration.

[Alhanelem]

You didn't even know that this was already done (despite having been told, multiple times). I'd say this pretty much shows how much you know about this kind of techology.

Knowledge of games using a tech != knowledge of the tech itself. therefore, you're wrong in implying how much you think I know. I have studied networking in and out of college, so please stop making insulting statements when you don't know the actual facts.

I don't need to "resort" to fallacy, as your arguments are fallacious in themselves.

My arguments have not been fallicious. I have been making reasonable comparisons between similar situations. You branding them "different" doesn't take the similarities away. Saying one situation is just like the other is not the same as saying the situations are identical. It's a good thing I wasn't doing what you were describing.

No, I'm talking about the software. And if Square Enix (or any other MMORPG developer) didn't design their systems to be modular, then they are incompetent (and I doubt they are), because you never know how successful your game can be, and you always should prepare in advance for a possible surge in playerbase.

Server software doesn't have to be modular to prepare for a possible surge in playerbase. If there is a surge of playerbase, you simply open more servers and offer server transfers to balance the population. Every server based game has done this for years and years. If you want to call SE "incompetent," well, look at FFXI- they made that too, it's server based, and their code structure is obviously anything but modular given their approach to solving the game's issues. Yeah, its a slippery slope, but you've been using it too so why can't I?

[Abriael]

Knowledge of games using a tech != knowledge of the tech itself. therefore, you're wrong in implying how much you think I know. I have studied networking in and out of college, so please stop making insulting statements when you don't know the actual facts.

You demonstrated that you don't know how that technology is used, and if you don't have any idea on how technology is applied, your knowledge is evidently lacking, and you're not qualified to make a cost assessment on it, since you don't even know how this kind of system works.

This is further demonstrated by the fact that you ignore that the base of the system is already in place, since the servers are already designed for on-the-fly character and data transfer between themselves. Otherwise there would be not cross-server anything, and even less cross-server gameplay like the dungeon finder.

My arguments have not been fallicious. I have been making reasonable comparisons between similar situations. You branding them "different" doesn't take the similarities away. Saying one situation is just like the other is not the same as saying the situations are identical. It's a good thing I wasn't doing what you were describing.

The difference is that the situations are evidently different, as they imply a completely different level of effort from the users in question.

Making time to spend it with someone is not comparable with having to create (and level up) a whole new character or transfering servers (which also costs money) while abandoning your whole contact list.

Arguing differently is like arguing that going to see someone that lives in the same neighborhood is the same as going to visit someone that lives in a different nation, and pretty much the very definition of grasping at straws.

Server software doesn't have to be modular to prepare for a possible surge in playerbase. If there is a surge of playerbase, you simply open more servers and offer server transfers to balance the population. Every server based game has done this for years and years. If you want to call SE "incompetent," well, look at FFXI- they made that too, it's server based, and their code structure is obviously anything but modular given their approach to solving the game's issues. Yeah, its a slippery slope, but you've been using it too so why can't I?

No, I don't want to call SE incompetent (but I knew you would have tried to paint it that way), because i know that, like every other MMORPG developer out there, they design their servers systems so that they are modular, in order to facilitate expansion and evolution.

Doing it differently means not being able to react to unforeseen situations and to the trends of the market, which is a very bad idea.

[Soukyuu]

Well that's exactly what i'm referring to here- your best buddy from school or since years and years ago vs someone you met while playing the game.

Well, that's where the "real life decisions" come into play. Like having to move to another country and them becoming your internet friends, and in some cases gradually losing contact with them over the years. So saying internet friends < rl friends is not that simple.

[Lurex]

I agree with you Abriael, and it is certainly something the development team should think about, if they haven't done so already. The primary reason for it as you have already said:

Games are moving away from it more and more. And it'd be a good thing for ARR not to miss the train and remain anchored to an obsolete limitation that players won't accept anymore in a few years.

Case in Point: I'm playing GW2 atm, and got a message from a friend that started on one world then moved to another to group up with some of his friends. He let me know that he moved, and "wala" I instantly changed worlds to be with them within seconds. I further understand that you can do this in GW2 every 7 days. It certainly is a nice feature.

[Alhanelem]

I further understand that you can do this in GW2 every 7 days. It certainly is a nice feature.

That's not a worldwide network though- it's just server transfers with less restrictions than typical. Which I'm not really against, but I feel that 7 days is too loose and allows for exploitative server hopping.

since the servers are already designed for on-the-fly character and data transfer between themselves.

Can I see your badge for access to SE HQ where you could see the source code to know this? It certainly hasnt been mentioned or announced by the community team in any post in recent memory. If I'm being horribly absentminded, please link me to where what you describe was explicitly stated (and if it was stated, then why are we even arguing about it? wouldn't that mean they are already doing it?)

You demonstrated that you don't know how that technology is used

I didn't demonstrate this anywhere. You are just insulting me without basis. I have a BA in computer science. I know "how technology is applied. I #&$%ing studied it.

you're not qualified to make a cost assessment on it, since you don't even know how this kind of system works.

I do know how that kind of system works. I can only guesstimate the costs because there are unknown variables at play- how much infrastructure SE would actually need, how much work would need to be done to adapt or revise their server source (and client UI) to adapt to a different kind of network topology, and so on. I can certainly tell you that it will vary greatly with the expected number of active users.

But that's only if we're talking about switching to a single game world system. Obviously making server transfers easy and less restricted doesn't require much work. I wouldnt mind looser restrictions than what XI had, as I mentioned above- but not changing servers at any time whenever you want. There has to be a limit on how frequently you can do it.

[Seirra_Lanzce]

Yea... ARR should be develop in mind that anyone can party together doing stuff together and not in instant, despite being in different servers.

like the theory of Guesting from GW2. Which many2 people are still anxiously waiting for it... =.=

[Abriael]

I didn't demonstrate this anywhere. You are just insulting me without basis. I have a BA in computer science. I know "how technology is applied. I #&$%ing studied it.

Really?

Logistically moving from one server to another is not an instant and easy task.

I don't know of any place where this has already been implemented

Quite obviously, a BA in Computer Science (which is a rather enormous subject, and doesn't give you specific professional knowledge on server structures applied to MMORPGs, let alone knowledge on costs and development times in that field) doesn't help you much here.

You didn't even know that the technology was actually created and applied, and now we should believe that you suddenly know all about it?

That, of course, without mentioning the fact that telling you that you don't know something obviously isn't an "insult" in any shape or form.

[Alhanelem]

You didn't even know that the technology was actually applied, and now we should believe that you know all about it?

Lack of awareness of specific peices of software implemeting specific features doesn't mean I don't know how technology is applied, sorry. Try again.

I apologize I haven't kept up with MMORPG systems news as much as you'd like. That doesn't make me unqualified to discuss technology on a theoretical level. It's fine to say you didn't mean to offend, but you can't control whether or not someone is actually offended. Why shouldn't be offended when you're effectively trying to make me look bad?

That, of course, without mentioning the fact that telling you that you don't know something obviously isn't an "insult" in any shape or form.

It is an insult when I do know something, and you are specifically using my alleged lack of knowledge as an attack.

Logistically moving from one server to another is not an instant and easy task.

WoW, and most other MMOs developed around its time and before, a server transfer would take a certain amount of time to complete. There is data, possibly a substantial amount of data, that needs to be moved/copied from one machine to another. This is a simple fact that your destionation server needs the data. In WoW, you wouldn't be able to log in to the character you created for a short period of time after initiating the transfer- You also had to do it on the website, not within the game client. So no, it's not instant. If the size of the data is large (I really can't be sure how much space our save data takes up, but it must be something at least slightly significant if it takes them months to convert the data for 2.0's format)then you would have to wait at least a short time. Hence "it is not an instant ... task."