[Reminder] Are you ready to cry again? (2° Wave of Alpha invites tomorrow, 3 dec.)

[EinSoFZ]

Only, this isn't a job. Our position is that of customers, which is very different of that of employees or perspective employees.

While true, that wasn't my point. First of all I'd argue that we're not even customers yet. Right now, anyone wanting to play or actually playing is just an interested party. Secondly, those of us who are in here clamoring to play and begging have already surrendered our nads to SE. I know that's blunt, but let's keep it real. You aren't going anywhere, I'm not going anywhere and neither are most of the players who will F5 these forums to keep up to date on ARR. When we're in a vice grip like that, they don't actually need to give us the level of respect we might actually be entitled to.

My analogies point was that sometimes you get it, sometimes you don't. Often the reason you don't is pretty stupid, but it's best to just move on; not harp on about your qualifications and promises/expectations. From the start of Alpha, I've told myself that like everything else in life it'll move on and we'll all be playing release. All of these shitstorms will be a faded memory. I have no reason to add to them thinking that way.

[Abriael]

While true, that wasn't my point. First of all I'd argue that we're not even customers yet

Fact is that we are.

My analogies point was that sometimes you get it, sometimes you don't. Often the reason you don't is pretty stupid, but it's best to just move on; not harp on about your qualifications and promises/expectations.

"moving on", "getting over it" and similar are a bad idea in customer/company relationships. It gives the company the very wrong idea that no matter what they do, there'll be no consequence. Which is a very dangerous signal flag to hoist.

But despite our disagreement, I thank you from the bottom of my heart for providing a counterpoint without throwing unnecessary personal assaults. While you provide no giggles to my co-workers, it's pretty refreshing.

[EinSoFZ]

Fact is that we are.

When they took your last payment for 1.0, you ceased to be a customer in fact. At best we're prospective customers for ARR. I mean, I haven't paid a dime for it yet and if ever I thought they were making the abortion that was 1.0 launch, they'd never get that dime. They're hoping we continue to play their game, so they're trying to make a good product (I guess) but until we've paid up, to me we aren't customers.

"moving on", "getting over it" and similar are a bad idea in customer/company relationships. It gives the company the very wrong idea that no matter what they do, there'll be no consequence. Which is a very dangerous signal flag to hoist.

Yeah, but this isn't a finished product or anything. Getting all up in arms over nothing makes you look like a child who can't control their emotions. You're mad because you can't play? Show a little class and go about demonstrating that in a mature way. The reason I mentioned how they have nuts in a vicegrip is because when you give yourself to a company so easily (ie: you're a sure thing) they can pretty much assume you'll take the heat and still be there to stay. You think that moving on or accepting it suggests a rather cavalier attitude about customer/company relations, but the truth is that we can only do so much. Since we don't pay yet, it's not like we can say that we don't support this therefore we're not giving more money.

We can play the game. We can provide our feedback. That's really it. Since this IS just alpha, I say we need not start a crusade for justice and equality. If you're Joan of Arc on this one, I think you're just going to get burned at the stake.

Patience is indeed a virtue. Wait for it.

[Abriael]

When they took your last payment for 1.0, you ceased to be a customer in fact.

The service hasn't been interrupted (this very forum is part of that service) and the company waived payment unilaterally. This means we're still customers.

Yeah, but this isn't a finished product or anything. Getting all up in arms over nothing makes you look like a child who can't control their emotions. You're mad because you can't play? Show a little class and go about demonstrating that in a mature way.

I sadly withdraw my remark about your ability to make a counterpoint without personal attacks.

truth is that we can only do so much.

Exactly. And I'm doing exactly that much. Offering criticism.

I'm not insulting, attacking, holding anyone at gunpoint, placing bombs on the lawn of SE's offices, threatening to ragequit. I'm just offering criticism, which is, mind you, my prerogative.

Then why are you attacking him over his opinion?

Can't attack the opinion itself. Attack the person. Old and trite forum trick.

[EinSoFZ]

I sadly withdraw my remark about your ability to make a counterpoint without personal attacks.


Can't attack the opinion itself. Attack the person. Old and trite forum trick.

Ehhh in my posts I don't refer to individuals on forums. I wasn't literally referring to you, but to the general audience who actually comes here mad as hell they didn't get into alpha and goes about showing their rage in all the wrong ways. Although I laughed so hard at the mere suggestion of what Square-Enix staff "better" do.

I'm sorry you got the wrong impression, but only kids need to boost their argument by using personal attacks. That's my belief on it, so I'd never personally attack someone unless I could attach the term and have everyone agree it described them.

Overall, I just disagree with your interpretation of things and I also don't agree with your reaction. By calling you Joan of Arc, in case you took offense to that, my intention was to show that you'll have done all of this criticism of their methods during alpha for naught at the end of the day.

[Abriael]

Ehhh in my posts I don't refer to individuals on forums. I wasn't literally referring to you, but to the general audience who actually comes here mad as hell they didn't get into alpha and goes about showing their rage in all the wrong ways. Although I laughed so hard at the mere suggestion of what Square-Enix staff "better" do.

I'm sorry you got the wrong impression, but only kids need to boost their argument by using personal attacks. That's my belief on it, so I'd never personally attack someone unless I could attach the term and have everyone agree it described them.

Overall, I just disagree with your interpretation of things and I also don't agree with your reaction. By calling you Joan of Arc, in case you took offense to that, my intention was to show that you'll have done all of this criticism of their methods during alpha for naught at the end of the day.

Apology accepted. I offer criticism with no expectation or demand of it being considered or adopted. If they will consider it, great. If they won't, at the very least I tried.

Considering how many suggestions i and other gave for this game and the next, and the percentage of them that are actually adopted, we do a TON of things for naught on this forum. It's really no reason not to let our voice be heard.

Yeah yeah yeah, next you'll deny that you're crying and butthurt over not getting into alpha. Then you'll start crying some more and being butthurt over not getting into alpha, then I'll laugh at you for being a butthurt crybaby over not gettng into alpha, then you'll deny you were crying... wash, wrinse, repeat. I know how it goes by now, Abby. The same old song, the same old dance. lol

I simply denied things you falsely accused me of having done. The forums are open to everyone and my posts are there for everyone to see. So it's pretty evident that now you're resorting to lies to try and misrepresent my person.

That's honestly quite low.

[EinSoFZ]

Apology accepted. I offer criticism with no expectation or demand of it being considered or adopted. If they will consider it, great. If they won't, at the very least I tried.

Considering how many suggestions i and other gave for this game and the next, and the percentage of them that are actually adopted, we do a TON of things for naught on this forum. It's really no reason not to let our voice be heard.

Yeah, that's the thing. We all know they listen to us and that it's important for us to share our concerns. So I'm not trying to stifle your voicing your concerns or ideas, but I am saying to pick your battles especially when it seems like you could be biased. From what I've read, and I don't deny maybe the wrong impression was gotten, you just sound like you wouldn't have done any this had you been selected for alpha when you wanted. If they had picked you during that first wave, would you still have been here asking them to contemplate their selection process?

Are you playing Alpha yet? My issue is that getting in was always a dice roll AGAINST one's favor. The only thing I thought was a little retarded was how they sent invites to inactives and people who may not even be on the radar for this game. You say they should cater to this and that, and reward loyalty etc. But that's really not how this works. Never has been.

I don't think it's a valid point to criticize I guess, aside from what I mentioned.