[Reminder] Are you ready to cry again? (2° Wave of Alpha invites tomorrow, 3 dec.)

[EinSoFZ]

This latest round seems to have really ruffled some feathers. Either way you go, it's not long until beta so eventually no one will be missing out. Though I still bet many will be disappointed by their out of control expectations.

[Abriael]

This latest round seems to have really ruffled some feathers. Either way you go, it's not long until beta so eventually no one will be missing out. Though I still bet many will be disappointed by their out of control expectations.

SE set the expectations, not us.

[Velhart]

SE set the expectations, not us.

I definitely respect your concerns in this. While it is okay that I don't get alpha, I most definitely do not like how SE approaches the selection here. I do not wish for them to practice beta selection like they did alpha and I most definitely hope that Legacy Members are looked upon first in this selection. Not saying to alienate non-Legacy Members, but we are the ones who have stuck by the worst moments of the game, throwing 9.99 a month at it.

I feel like any company who would be in this situation would cater to the active players first. I understand the situation somewhat with Alpha, despite how sketchy their selection methods are, but I definitely hope the same practices do not come into beta.

[SkyeWindbinder]

The thing is, I really don't see how anyone can possibly accuse SE of not pandering to their loyal fanbase enough. I mean, those who played the game for a certain time in 1.0 had the chance to get their very own rare gobbue mount, one that was not available to get for a short time before the servers went down and will NOT be available to anyone afterwards, especially those starting in ARR. And then you have the Legacy perks, which are up to and including paying a cheaper price for a monthly sub. Every time I turn around SE is doing something to reward their loyal sub base for being loyal. Yet, because they don't let everyone who has been a long time sub into alpha, they suddenly don't treat their loyal sub base right? You have got to be kidding me.

As I said before, I am also a legacy member who has been with 1.0 since before all the revisioning started. And I am also disappointed that I didn't get into legacy. But does that mean I should accuse SE of "doing it wrong" because I didn't get into alpha? Or that I should believe they are not "nice to their loyal subscribers" because I didn't get to test the game out in alpha phase? With all the perks I've gotten from SE for being a long-time sub, I should now flip out and go all conspiracy theory on them for not letting me into alpha? I'm sorry, I just can't agree with that. I just can't. And I'm not trying to "White Knight" SE or anything, it just doesn't make sense to me.

[Abriael]

The thing is, I really don't see how anyone can possibly accuse SE of not pandering to their loyal fanbase enough. I mean, those who played the game for a certain time in 1.0 had the chance to get their very own rare gobbue mount, one that was not available to get for a short time before the servers went down and will NOT be available to anyone afterwards, especially those starting in ARR. And then you have the Legacy perks, which are up to and including paying a cheaper price for a monthly sub. Every time I turn around SE is doing something to reward their loyal sub base for being loyal. Yet, because they don't let everyone who has been a long time sub into alpha, they suddenly don't treat their loyal sub base right? You have got to be kidding me.

As I said before, I am also a legacy member who has been with 1.0 since before all the revisioning started. And I am also disappointed that I didn't get into legacy. But does that mean I should accuse SE of "doing it wrong" because I didn't get into alpha? Or that I should believe they are not "nice to their loyal subscribers" because I didn't get to test the game out in alpha phase? With all the perks I've gotten from SE for being a long-time sub, I should now flip out and go all conspiracy theory on them for not letting me into alpha? I'm sorry, I just can't agree with that. I just can't. And I'm not trying to "White Knight" SE or anything, it just doesn't make sense to me.

It's not a matter of "pandering". People here aren't asking for gifts or giveaways.

It's a matter of valuing their feedback and providing them with a way to give it.

You're comparing apples to oranges. All the "perks" you name (in game memorabilia? please. Who cares?) don't even get near the value of the ability to influence the early development and direction of the game we're all going to play.

That's what feedback given in the alpha is. Whether that influence is big or small or negligible is inconsequential. For a loyal and passionate customer it's a very important thing.

By not inviting all their loyal customers to the alpha square enix has deprieved a sizable number of them of that ability, which simply translate on the fact that their feedback isn't given sufficient value, and it's placed below the "feedback" (assuming it's even coming, and from most it probably isn't) of people that kicked the game into the curb years ago and never cared until now that there's a shiny new toy to play with.

With no way to be sure that they'll even get an early access to the beta, many simply think: "great, when I'll get in and I'll finally be able to throw in the weight of my feedback, it'll be too late and my feedback will be moot".

Sorry, but if you think a big ass mount that you pull out only when you want to grief your peers can replace that, you really didn't understand why many are so passionate about getting into the alpha.

Getting into the early testing of a game means being able to exercise the most influence on that game's future direction, as many concepts are still deep into development. The later you get in, the more that (already limited) ability is reduced.

It's absolutely normal and understandable that people that have suffered through the worst of 1.0 and have been here since are disappointed by seeing that ability taken away from them and given to someone that didn't care and ragequit.

Beta: Let all the Legacy members/1.0 people back in

You're aware that there's absolutely no guarantee that such a thing will happen right? I HOPE it does, and that's why I've been criticizing the selection process for the alpha. It would make sense for it to be like that, just as it would have made sense for the alpha.

But again, hopes and common sense don't mean it'll happen like that.

Agreed, I can't wait for beta!

And the funny thing is that he accuses others of spamming the same things over and over. lol.

[SkyeWindbinder]

It's not a matter of "pandering". It's a matter of valuing their feedback and providing them with a way to give it.

Which you will get when beta rolls around. Just because you haven't gotten into alpha doesn't really mean you've been "slighted". You simply weren't one of the lucky few. I'm sure they're getting feedback from the people who are in alpha. And as long as that's happening, things are on the right track.

You're comparing apples to oranges. All the "perks" you name (in game memorabilia? please. Who cares?) don't even get near the value of the ability to influence the early development and direction of the game we're all going to play.

Says you. You see, you're only speaking from the view of what you want and feel you should get. I personally think the perks are nothing to sneeze at. Especially consdering we will pay a considerably less amount for our subscription than others will. If you don't think that's a great deal, then in my opinion you are asking waaay too much. lol And as I said, they have people in alpha who I'm sure will give them the feedback they require. Just because you're not one of them does't mean they're "doing it wrong".

That's what feedback given in the alpha is. Whether that influence is big or small or negligible is inconsequential. For a loyal and passionate customer it's a very important thing.

So is paying less money for a subscription. And once again, they are getting the feedback they require. And, once again, just because you're not one of the few selected to do so doesn't mean you've really been slighted or that they're going about the process wrong. After taking time in meetings and months of preparation, they're handling the alpha phase their way. All you can really do is sit back, relax, and wait till beta.

By not inviting all their loyal customers to the alpha square enix has deprieved a sizable number of them of that ability, which simply translate on the fact that their feedback isn't given sufficient value, and it's placed below the "feedback" (assuming it's even coming, and from most it probably isn't) of people that kicked the game into the curb years ago and never cared until now that there's a shiny new toy to play with.

That's how you choose to translate it. Who knows what their plan is for whom they picked and chose for alpha. Some superbly loyal customers got in. Some not so loyal (at least not for as long as the others) also got in. SE most likely have their reasons for doing it this way. It's their plan. And they're going with it, whether you feel some people "deserved" to get into alpha or not.

With no way to be sure that they'll even get an early access to the beta, many simply think: "great, when I'll get in and I'll finally be able to throw in the weight of my feedback, it'll be too late and my feedback will be moot".

How do you know that's how they're going to handle beta? For all you know, feedback could still be a very big thing during the beta phase. Or maybe not. The point is, they're going to let in whom they're going to let in. And if you want to say they're not "being nice to their loyal sub base" then that's your opinion. I, personally, find such a claim to be, well, unfounded, as well as a trigger effect of frustration and anger of not getting into alpha. Especially given what loyal subs have been given for being loyal subs.

Sorry, but if you think a big ass mount that you pull out only when you want to grief your peers can replace that, you really didn't understand why many are so passionate about getting into the alpha.

So, you assume people wll only pull out the mount to "grief their peers". That's a huge assumption, and pretty unfounded too. You also assume that getting into alpha is more of a perk than paying a cheaper price for a subscription for, like, forever when others will pay a significantly higher price is less significant than getting into alpha. (shrug) Well fine, to each his own. But to that, I have to say this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWdd6_ZxX8c

[Abriael]

loads of snippets

I'm sure you don't mind if I condense and synthetize the bloated multiple qotes for the sake of brevity and legibility.

1: You're comparing apples to oranges. In Game items or discounts are a completely different cup of tea from being able to influence the early development of a game. Giving one doesn't help in any way if the receiver wants the other. Paying less for a game and having items in a game doesn't help in any way if a customer doesn't enjoy the game, and being able to influence the game's direction and development is the only way we have to directly increase the chance that we'll enjoy said game.

The fact that they have other people in the alpha giving *their* feedback and pulling the game in the direction *they* want doesn't help in any way.

2: The later you get into the testing of a game, the less you'll have a chance to influence its development and direction. This is a steel-clad and undeniable rule of testing, as the more development progress, the more design becomes rigid. Therefore getting into a beta (that's IF you get in it early or ever) is no replacement for getting into the alpha (and getting into beta late is no replacement of getting into early beta) for the sake of giving feedback that may have a sizable chance of getting considered.

3: "it's their game, they do what they want" doesn't fly. As paying customers we have full right to criticize the way they handle their game. That's the very definition of customer-provided criticism and feedback. According to your flawed logic, alpha and beta are completely useless because "it's their game", so our feedback has no value.

As usual, second guessing my motives is just a petty personal attack and adds no solid ground under your assumptions.

[Nix]

Snippety

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sYsw0KVRjCM
<3