[Reminder] Are you ready to cry again? (2° Wave of Alpha invites tomorrow, 3 dec.)

[Starlord]

LOL. You need thick glasses.

There have been several people that have agreed with me, and there continue to be. Your reading is extremely selective according to personal convenience, I see, just as your application of the "spammer" definition.

I only see you complaining about it, When were in beta you still going to be at this.. because at least everyone " who is on your side" has stop yapping on about it. You "say" your not butthurt.. but I think that's more of "denial". They didn't respond to your yapping 2-3 weeks ago, what makes you think your going to get a response now? Your waisting your time.

[Gramul]

I think they may have unintentionally raised our hopes as Legacy members.

[ispano]

Yes I am repeating myself you are indeed correct, but is he even attempting to stop himself? that's the real question here.

Also, if one person is the only one complaining about such things.. don;t you think it's a little pointless to Complain when you don't have a group to follow your cause?

I only see him...

He brought up his argument, you attacked it/him. He defends it, you attack him for not stopping. Well, not just you, but others. So he should just shut up because some people think he's a whiner, or dislike what he's saying? Normally someone who puts out an argument won't repeat or reiterate themselves unless it's contested or attacked, ie what you and others are doing. You're telling him to drop his argument and leave. That's not really how it works.

[Abriael]

So all the loyalists that didnt get into alpha and you know is a bunch of ppl that are active in this forum, thats maybe 1% of the active long time player prolly less. You don't even know about all ppl in this thread if they are in or not cause they not allowed to say it without beaking the NDA...

The possibility that there alot loyalists in the alpha is very high, and at the end this is all about that you didnt get in and not all these other ppl.

The difference between me and you is that I don't make up statistics and percentages without data.

We know there are a lot of paying customers that did not get into the alpha. And that's *all* we know. They may be the 1%, the 10%, the 50%... It doesn't really matter.

It's a sizable number, and as such it's relevant.

Thats something you point out quite often cause you got invited for all these other games so these Publisher are smart and here you did not get an invitation so SE is dumb....

Nope. Those companies invited and invite *all* their paying supporters to their tests, therefore IMHO they demonstrate that they value the feedback of their loyal customerbase enough. SE didn't, therefore their consideration of the feedback of their loyal customerbase isn't as high.

I never talked about me, nor i ever talked about "smart" or "dumb".

Misprepresenting someone's argument because you can't counter it in its original form is called a "strawman argument", needless to say, it makes your point void.

I only see you complaining about it

Again, you need thick glasses, and my posts always have multiple likes, automatically proving you wrong.

When were in beta you still going to be at this.. because at least everyone " who is on your side" has stop yapping on about it. You "say" your not butthurt.. but I think that's more of "denial". They didn't respond to your yapping 2-3 weeks ago, what makes you think your going to get a response now? Your waisting your time.

My time is mine alone. Why would you be worried about it?

The fact that they aren't responding to my criticism isn't a reason to stop expressing it (despite the fact that you really really want me to).

[SkyeWindbinder]

That doesn't really matter. Both are decisions that were made with a reason, and both the decisions and reasons are subject to criticism. That's a paying customer's prerogative.

Well, if you wish to compare not letting loyalists of FFXIV test alpha to one of the biggest and deadliest disasters of all time, then that's up to you. I mean, I personally find such comparisons to be ludicrous and a bit of an insult to those involved in such a tragedy, but liek you said, it's your perogative. Do as you please. I mean, I'm pretty disappointed I didn't get invited into alpha either, but I'm not comparing my situation to that of those wo were on the Hindenburg. (shrug)

Them having "Been around" didn't prevent them from making mistakes in the past, just as many other companies. Unfortunately experience doesn't work as an automatic vaccine for mistakes.

Nor does immediately pandering to the whim of loyalists. For example, take Bioware's Star Wars: The Old Republic. Everyone and their mother got in to test that game, including loyalists of Bioware who had been playing their games since, like, forever. And now, SWTOR is free to play. Hmm...

SE may value the opinion of *a percentage* of their loyal customers. But in my opinion (and obviously I'm not alone there), not allowing *all* their loyal customers to provide proper feedback of the alpha means that they don't have that opinion in a sufficiently high consideration.

But how would you know what percentage of their fanbase SE values? I mean, if you're basing that off of the fact that a few loyalists got into the game, then what about the ones who got in that weren't loyalists? See, it works both ways. People, loyalists and otherwise, were chosen to test the game. Now, in your opinion, SE does not value the opinion of their loyal fanbase because not "all" of the people who regularly play their games got in. In MY opinion, that is a ludicrous reason to assume such a thing. Think about it, would you still be saying SE doesn't "value the opinion of loyal customers" if you actually got in to test alpha? I'm betting no. and really, who says only customers who have been playing FF14 for such and such long time would be able to provide proper and adequate feedback? Maybe they were selected on different terms, like how good or bad their computer specs were, or what region they were in. Who knows? Liek I said, I'm sure SE had their reasons.

Of course it's an opinion. Criticism almost always is.

Forgive me, but I find your criticism to be a bit unreasonable. Of course, that too is an opinion.

[Starlord]

He brought up his argument, you attacked it/him. He defends it, you attack him for not stopping. Well, not just you, but others. So he should just shut up because some people think he's a whiner, or dislike what he's saying? Normally someone who puts out an argument won't repeat or reiterate themselves unless it's contested or attacked, ie what you and others are doing. You're telling him to drop his argument and leave. That's not really how it works.

When it streches on for 2-3 weeks and Alpha is over really, and he's still talking about Alpha? We should be talking about Beta now and how we can improve the Application of Beta so we don;t have this problem, not talking about Alpha! Alpha is History now...

[moriandrio]

Do you think it would be smart to invite every person with an FFXIV account to an alpha? This might work out for Games with a very small community or if test are at an final stage.

And i never made statistics all i did was a guess and we all know that just a little part of the players are active in this forum.

[ispano]

When it streches on for 2-3 weeks and Alpha is over really, and he's still talking about Alpha? We should be talking about Beta now and how we can improve the Application of Beta so we don;t have this problem, not talking about Alpha! Alpha is History now...

Except it's not about Alpha. It's about the selection process and possible flaws with it. Which could very well continue to beta. And again, the only reason it "stretches" this long is people keep attacking it or arguing against it. Like you.

[Abriael]

When it streches on for 2-3 weeks and Alpha is over really, and he's still talking about Alpha?

So are you. Your point?

We should be talking about Beta now and how we can improve the Application of Beta so we don;t have this problem, not talking about Alpha! Alpha is History now...

That's exactly what we've been doing. Criticism and feedback to the selection process in the alpha can easily and seamlessly be applied to the selection process for the beta.

You sure are good at contradicting yourself mate.

[Abriael]

Do you think it would be smart to invite every person with an FFXIV account to an alpha? This might work out for Games with a very small community or if test are at an final stage.

No. I think it would have been appropriate ("smart" is a very inappropriate definition to a development decision), to invite every person that has an *active* FFXIV account to the alpha. The community isn't exactly humongous, so it would have been definitely doable. Then, if they needed additional testers, they could have integrated it with a number of inactives.

Not only this would have provided SE with a more focused and dedicated testing pool, but it would have also reduced by a lot the number of "dummy" testers that just apply to every alpha/beta in order to have a new free game to play for a couple hours and quit afterwards without providing a speck of feedback.

Not to mention the fact that it would have shown consideration for the feedback of those that provided their support for the game and its team when everyone else was spotting on it.

And i never made statistics all i did was a guess and we all know that just a little part of the players are active in this forum.

This forum isn't the only source. There are plenty of social networks and other forums to pull data from.