Lost faith in Yoshi-P?

[Levian]

not sure how you got all that off my one liner, but i was talking about the game then you come with all that mumbo jumbo. and yeah, if you hate the the game dont play it it is as simple as that, you lived up to this point before ffxiv you can live without it.
problem with people today they look tooooooo deep into things.

On the contrary, I think the problem with people today is that they don't look deep enough.

The, "If you hate the game, don't play it," or perhaps more accurately, "suck it up and deal" mentality is what got us 1.0. SE, Yoshida, and the rest of the dev team starting to listen to the complaints of dissatisfied customers is what's getting us ARR. If everyone that disliked the game had just shutup and left, this game would have been buried and forgotten long, long ago.

But rather than start a flame war let's agree to disagree, shall we?

[ejiboo]

you can't deny that the work yoshi and the team have done is impressive but i'm just so baffled at all of the things i continue to see that make me wonder what the fcuk they are thinking... meaning i don't have much faith. i hope i eat my words!

[Elexia]

A broader market thats one sided. Yoshi wouldnt know balance if it hit him smack in the face. You have a few different types of players and to cater to 1 group more than balanceing the game for all types of players is an insult. At what point dose the hand holding stop level 5,10 or never? At what point and how much help dose a person need?

I especially love the "small niche". What I also love is people who say "trying to reach a broader audience"..

Now, let's look at AION, SWTOR, RIFT, GW2 and TERA..what are the states of these games that doing basically what ARR is doing? I lost faith immediately when it seemed that ARR won't offer anything new and while people are excited for it, most of the excitement is the fact it's different from XIV 1.0, nothing more and nothing less. If it was that easy to please people by making your MMO exactly like every other on the market, wouldn't the new MMOs that failed and are failing be better off or doing 100x better than MMOs from 1996-2004?

D3 while not a true MMO also heavily disappointed people and it's by Blizzard as well, so not even Blizzard is safe from the inevitable fate all new online games seem to face. I think what I find funny about the "focus" of players they should be targeting, is people say they shouldn't target or want FFXI players or anyone who enjoys "older MMOs" but ignore that WoW is an MMO from 2004. Hell, when MoP came out you had people crying because they tried something different within their own MMO.

So it's all well and good he wants to target "a broader audience"..even though that audience will leave this game quicker than money in lindsay lohan's bank accounts. The game will be good or bad, people will leave in drones because if Yoshi truly is settling just to make this game fit in, when a game that does something better than most (SWTOR/Tera) doesn't even survive because of the "standard nature"...what hope does ARR have?

It's a Final Fantasy game? Yet people love to denounce FFXI/FFXII/XIII/XIII-2 and people who liked it no problem. ARR will no doubt retain the 10-16k players that were mapped out by the end of XIV's official service by compiling login numbers through meticulous searching..they should only hope they can accomplish what XI did, have a sizable stable playerbase for years to come. Most MMOs don't last months these days, and XIV is an mmo with a well known failed history..so it's unrealistic to expect people to forget that.

He's smart as a developer, but so are the many other developers of MMORPGs that failed. The game being thrown in the market is only half of the battle.

Yup, I guess you can't if all you focus on is the smaller picture. I can see the bigger picture.

Means nothing. I can see the bigger picture of every other new MMORPG too, they all still failed. Why? The game felt familiar and easier to pick up, but...that's the problem, it's essentially the same game.

So while you think this is being witty or accurate:

This amazing pic says it all.

Many more people have seen and played more than enough of the alpha to know that unless SE really steps their game up all of this:

I can see the bigger picture including the housing system, golden saucer, crystal tower, bahamuts labyrinth, all new world to explore, archanist, three separate overarching stories, Raids, story missions, PVP, FATEs, Hamlet Defense,

Is meaningless when people leave your MMORPG within the first few months or get bored of it very quickly. Also:

300+ quests (doubt every last one will be a gopher quest and I dont understand the crying about that)

Please tell me you're not expecting these to all be unique and groundbreaking...please tell me you're not.

(doubt every last one will be a gopher quest and I dont understand the crying about that)

The "crying" about it is due to the fact from what people have seen and played and stated, while it makes it feel like a standard MMORPG..it's the exact same thing.

The. Exact. Same. Thing.

However, it seems people are willingly going to settle for less just because ARR will be built like a standard MMORPG. This is why FFXI succeeded and even Yoshida admits it, it took from EQ but still went it's own way with designs for systems and ontop of that, designed like a FF game. Even if they take "from WoW in the same idea", it's not likely to succeed now..because every MMO has done that annnnnnnnnnnnnd failed.

Once Beta rolls around which is the state it's most close to the launch state with obvious exceptions, we'll see if ARR will be able to stand the heat or if they'll end up getting crushed by the beast that is the new generation of MMORPG gamers. It's an oversaturated market, just image search any new MMORPG or even download/play any 2-3 MMOs in the same branch ("AAA title" or 2D/Anime style for example) and see if you can honestly say they each are the most unique and ground breaking MMORPG that will keep people glued to their seats.

It's a new world, times have changed but developers are settling for appeasing people who are bored even of their golden child MMORPG. So lost faith? Definitely, but not in Yoshida as a developer, in the direction he seemingly wants this game to take. XIV 1.0 may not have been the hottest chick on the block, but she like her sister FFXI had the personality that made her standout in a crowd that have the personality and longevity of a puddle of piss.

[Ruisu]

so sick of people pretending 1.0 was not spam city with the use of ws.

If you were a shit player, sure. There was absolutely nothing wrong with 1.0's combat, post 1.20 of course. It was completely fluid and faster than anything I've seen of ARR.

Also, people still think RIFT is a failure? That's why it's been p2p for longer than most MMOs that have come out since then, right? RIFT is the perfect example at how a game can take ideas from another MMO, and then expand on them. Rather than gimmicky shit like action crosshair combat and voice acting, or better yet, dynamic events.

[Elexia]

If you were a shit player, sure. There was absolutely nothing wrong with 1.0's combat, post 1.20 of course. It was completely fluid and faster than anything I've seen of ARR.

Also, people still think RIFT is a failure? That's why it's been p2p for longer than most MMOs that have come out since then, right? RIFT is the perfect example at how a game can take ideas from another MMO, and then expand on them. Rather than gimmicky shit like action crosshair combat and voice acting, or better yet, dynamic events.

You don't have to move to F2P to be considered failed. Rift actually didn't expand on much when you place it side by side of any other MMO.

You say it "expanded rather than gimmicky shit"...just look at the name and it's main concept lol. That's "gimmicky shit" that other games even did better.

[ZakarnRosewood]

Once Beta rolls around which is the state it's most close to the launch state with obvious exceptions, we'll see if ARR will be able to stand the heat or if they'll end up getting crushed by the beast that is the new generation of MMORPG gamers.

Sounds good, I look forward to all your continued feedback! I sure hope they can make a game you will enjoy. If not i hope you can find something to satiate the beast within.

[Ruisu]

You don't have to move to F2P to be considered failed. Rift actually didn't expand on much when you place it side by side of any other MMO.

You say it "expanded rather than gimmicky shit"...just look at the name and it's main concept lol. That's "gimmicky shit" that other games even did better.

Oh look, you have no idea what you're talking about.

Either post proof that Rift was a complete and utter failure on the scale of TERA or SWTOR, or shut the fuck up. Especially since they were able to release a full on expansion pack this year. Sure is failing, mirite?

[Firon]

If you were a shit player, sure. There was absolutely nothing wrong with 1.0's combat, post 1.20 of course. It was completely fluid and faster than anything I've seen of ARR.

Also, people still think RIFT is a failure? That's why it's been p2p for longer than most MMOs that have come out since then, right? RIFT is the perfect example at how a game can take ideas from another MMO, and then expand on them. Rather than gimmicky shit like action crosshair combat and voice acting, or better yet, dynamic events.

If your playing mnk or drg and doing your rotations right you should never be out of tp and never stop WS so what was you saying again?

[Ruri]

I have not lost faith, I am in alpha and love some things while I wish some were changed to how they were near 1.0's end. Hopefully they will be somewhere in the middle and become a good game for release. Only time will tell.

[Preypacer]

well i saw a video from guildleves in ARR which mostly worked and looked the same to me. so if you want you just can still do guildleves over and over (like in 1.0.) if you loved them so much.
they just added more content to it. is this a wrong direction to you, really?

ah well i understand, it is better to have a lesser choice of content..

people who want to grind, can grind, people who want to grind guildleves can do guildleves, people who want to grind quests can grind quests.. people who want to do public events can do "Fate", people who want to level in dungeon instances with a group can do so (there are more lowbe dungeons). people who want to enjoy story missions can still do so.

YOU have a bigger variety to chose from. thats the direction i see.

you behave like if there is only the choice of questing in order to level up (its WoW Clone!). it is exactly 1.0., except lower exp when you want to do pure mob grinding. guildleves + the options for quests (which also existed in 1.0.). for me its not that much of a difference.
but people like to flame.

Wow. You are seriously a fan of cherry-picking and taking things out of context, aren't you? I leave the thread for a little while, come back, and you're still at it - taking people's arguments, spinning them completely out of context, inserting your own "twist" to them, and then arguing against them as though you've made a point.

Having quests as a means to level up alone does not make it a WoW clone. You make that sarcastic remark as though it's an ace card earning you some thread-winning point. Only it isn't. It only shows that you continue to be intellectually dishonest by ignoring, twisting or otherwise inventing what other people are saying.

- Having quests as primary means to level up puts it in that category - and this is something Yoshi himself has stated would be the primary means of leveling. You can level by grinding mobs in WoW or its derivatives as well, that doesn't make it somehow "different".

- Having quests that are very much predominantly "kill or collect x of y" type quests puts it in that category.

- The heavy-handed guidance where every single last thing is pointed out to you, to the degree that you don't even have to read the quest dialog at all, much less even know what you're after or why (you'd see all the big golden !'s before you'd see the actual mobs anyway), puts it in that category. They skip through the quest dialog in the official Alpha vid they released, for crying out loud. How much more "official" can you get than that?

That's just talking about the questing.

There's myriad other things Yoshi-P has outlined himself - as in, no one in these forums is "making it up" or "imagining it" - about what direction he's taking ARR. He said himself in several interviews, that WoW is the main basis by which ARR is being developed. He said himself in another interview how he feels XIV should have been SE taking WoW and trying to make it into a FF game. He said himself that that's what he's doing with ARR.

All of this is easily referenced and verified.

The things he's putting into the game are features that were introduced or otherwise "made mainstream" by WoW and/or its derivatives (aka 'clones'), with little if any deviation.

What he isn't taking from WoW and its clones, he's apparently picking up and taking from older FF games. Looking at it from the "big picture" point-of-view, at this point, it looks like what we have is:
WoW/Clone Gameplay + FF Series Fan Service + Things Already Established in 1.0 = ARR.

There's been very little - too little, in fact - revealed about the game that gives any other kind of impression - unless you're trying to fill in the blanks with your own fantasy version of what it's going to be. Again, you can continue to imagine what the game is going to be like at launch. The rest of us will look at what we're clearly being shown and told.

So, while you'll certainly continue to keep posting your drivel, distorting what others say, putting words in their mouth and being all around willfully ignorant, there is far more evidence pointing to what those of us on "this side" of the fence are talking about. I don't have to make things up or hurl around conjecture to make my point. I simply have to point at what we've already been shown and told by SE and Yoshi-P himself.

Many of us have been down this road before. A lot of MMOs have come out over the last 8 years or so that have been designed as WoW clones. They all, despite their individual differences, ultimately end up feeling like you're playing WoW in a different skin - even while their developers insist "oh no no...we're not doing that at all". In that light, itsheer willful ignorance - or just plain delusion - to look at everything shown/told to us about ARR to date - right down to Yoshi-P himself stating that WoW is the basis for ARR's redesign - and say "nope... won't be a WoW clone. Nope".

Many of us MMO gamers have been around this block many times over by now. Too many times to believe that a new MMO clearly built on many of the same features and systems that WoW and its clones have used is somehow going to turn out miraculously different from them.

You can continue beating that drum, telling yourself that, and seeing it as you will through that distorted looking-glass you seem to be using. The rest of us will see things that are right in front of us for what they actually are, no filters required.

The funny part is, I would love nothing more than for your relentless optimism about the game to be 100% right, and for me to be 100% wrong. I would love for this game to stand out and be something that's accessible and fun enough for people to pick up and play as easily as they would WoW or its ilk, while still being its own beast, bringing new concepts to the genre, rather than being another "me-too" game that lifts and copies entire systems from those games wholesale. To date, everything that's been shown or explained has demonstrated ARR to be heading in the latter direction. And frankly, I - and it seems a number of other people - are sick of playing "that game".