Why Casual Friendly Would Stop ARR From Dying

[Nero]

People hear casual and figure that they must make it piss easy; that is incorrect logic. Casuals want progression too. The difference is they do not generally have 24/7 to invest into said progression. The content can still be difficult. Let's not water down a game because we believe that's the only way to keep those casuals playing. Even a casual will quit when they reach the bottom of the glass. Too easy is boring for everyone.

What has the time you spend to do with being a "casual" gamer or "hardcore" gamer? since when are those 2 are just terms for a timeframe?

I found it kind of annoying that people always imply that casual and hardcore is all about the time you spend.

[Starlord]

Hardcores and Casuals do have time differences in which they can play. However both of them do share a common goal, and that is to have long lasting content.

If the game doesn't have long-lasting content, either of them won't make the game populated.

[Nero]

Hardcores and Casuals do have time differences in which they can play. However both of them do share a common goal, and that is to have long lasting content.

If the game doesn't have long-lasting content, either of them won't make the game populated.

So a Gamer which beat every single content and "just" plays 1-2 hours a day is called a Casual-Gamer? That would be the total opposite of what the OP is saying, because OP implies that someone with a short amount of Time cant beat all the content, but i know a lot of people which did in several games, even with a "small" timeframe.

[Punainen]

They already made Relics casual so doesn't that indicate to you that this game is going to be "casual aka easy mode"?

You're basically asking for a complete WoW copy with different graphics. I say no! That game is horrible in every way!

You think Relics are casual?? What casual players were beating Ifrit Extreme??

[Azurus]

It's not. Hating on WoW is what the so-called "cool kids" like to do these days. It's just a fad, it will go away in time. lol

It's actually a pretty good game. The reaon I'm not subbed to it anymore is because I make it a rule to play only one P2P mmo game at a time, to conserve cash. But really, it's a good game. They have a free trial offer if you want to try it.

I dont agree with EVERYTHING you say but this makes us best friends I think. The "I HATE WOW!" cool kids club is really something to laugh at here on these forums.

[EinSoFZ]

What has the time you spend to do with being a "casual" gamer or "hardcore" gamer? since when are those 2 are just terms for a timeframe?

I found it kind of annoying that people always imply that casual and hardcore is all about the time you spend.

Well, to me that's really all it is. It's about time required to do "x" thing and time needed to complete "x" thing. Either way you go, I don't think the content in itself really matters. Whenever so-called casuals complain it is more often than not that "I don't have time to complete all of these tasks and accomplish what I'd like to in the game".

So what SE might generally do is take a boss that would take some real strategy to defeat (that takes time) and make it so it's easy to beat by simply bringing the right jobs and only needing to stab it to death (that doesn't take time). What I suggest is that casual players don't want to breeze through content, they only want to be able to accomplish it within a reasonable time frame. The solution is not making every single piece of content easy as pie in terms of finishing it.

I'll be blunt in saying that's not only damaging to the core of a game, it's just outright stupid. There should be a mix, such that some bosses are easy to defeat but that many are also incredibly tough to the point of requiring a heavy time investment to succeed. Some dungeons should be easy to just walk through and others should be very trying. At the end, it's really about a time commitment and casuals say they don't have it. It's understandable, but my whole point was that we don't need to have a watered down shell of game just those who are casual can do everything there is to do very quickly to suit themselves.

In the end if everything can be done easily, there's no reason to stick around for anyone.

[Punainen]

If you deny casual players the chance at good gear, they will lose interest in the game and go away. SE had already previously mentioned plans to knock down the difficulty of old content (yet they didn't do it), so at least at some point they agreed with OP.

[Starlord]

In regards to "time":

Casuals means as it implies "Casual" You play when you have the "time"

occasional or irregular

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/casual

Hardcores- Has all the time in the world to play said game.

In Regards to Action/Longevity :

Hardcores and Casuals are on equal terms, because time does not equal skill. A Person can be a hardcore and still play like he's never played the game before, and a Causal can be so skillful that he plays like he plays this game all of his life.

Time= Different
Action/Longevity = Same

But which holds more weight? Action/Longevity

If the game had little content to do, even the casual will reach the bottom of the barrel and the game will flop.

[Nero]

Well, to me that's really all it is. It's about time required to do "x" thing and time needed to complete "x" thing. Either way you go, I don't think the content in itself really matters. Whenever so-called casuals complain it is more often than not that "I don't have time to complete all of these tasks and accomplish what I'd like to in the game".

And that is where i see a huge problem in definitions. If we talk about 1.0 every "Casual-Gamer" can in theory clear all the Content IF he plays just 1-2 hours a day, since there is no Timer which exceeds 60 Minutes. And since everything is pretty much repeatable as often as you want, we could agree that 1.0 is a really casual-friendly game. There is such no Content in 1.0 which would force you to play more than 1-2 hours a day.

And IF being Casual has nothing to do with Skill ( what the majority in this Thread said ), then they also can finish Relics within a couple weeks, compared to 2-3 days for a "Hardcore-Gamer".

I couldnt care less about the Topic, all i am confused about is the "Casual" <-> "Hardcore" comparing thing. If i would go by the defintion used in this thread i would be myself a "Casual-Gamer" and i still couldnt agree less with the OP.

[Azurus]

if you have no time then don't play. how hard is that. casuals already ruining mmo's more and more with every mmo that launches and there hasn't been a truly successful mmo since they started trying to accommodate you. simply put if you don't put things together, parties in mmo's now, that means you never will and you will always want the type of players that will put things together in your mmo's(or the need for more and more easier and solo content, gw2 failure) ...but they leave cause the mmo is to your liking not theirs and then you leave too if not left already cause you think a mmo is just like any other shitty offline game.

when you cancel a mmo payment (aka quit game or take a small leave) they should pop up a questionnaire just like the ones that pop up when you try to delete some software off your computer. that way SE and all mmo companies will know exactly why they are losing people, but in reality i think they know.

casuals leave regularly, hardcore leave cause the game sucks and to easy and nothing to do, everyone else leaves cause we are the life and soul of a mmo. /end for the mmo and it goes f2p. they have spent the past 10years trying to dub wow but wow wasn't this casual friendly from what i understand at the start and i read that it went back to hardcore again in the last few expansions too.

separate servers as i mentioned a million times in a million posts in a million forums for a million mmo's but anyway. till they listen they can keep failing mmo's. top to bottom it must be made for hardcore not casual and then do as you please to lower settings for the others. what is the worste that will happen? casuals beat the mmo and try out hard mode? or quit like they would of anyway but you still got all the hardcore playing for years and years.

I hope you never become a game developer or a small business owner. Contrary to what you may think, "hardcores" dont pay the bills, the "casuals" do. They far outnumber you AND its actually hardcores that clear content so fast then leave because the developers can not keep up with their crack infused pace of clearing and looting. You will never have a modern MMO built just for Hardcore players, the best you can hope for is a happy medium like I think FFXIV will be. There is too much money to be had from the casual gaming sphere for companies to NOT want to include them.

This is why every MMO that tries to be hardcore is ridiculously underfunded and down right shitty, they just dont have the financial confidence of investors and companies. Unfortunately this is why there are no good sandbox games, besides eve online, because they are hung up on having to be hardcore and can not generate the interest yo goad a AAA dev team in to making one.

Also this game already failed once, do you really want to risk it not being a resounding success and bringing in as much people as possible? how many chances you think it is going to get? Its defying the odds as is because the MMO industry is very unforgiving and often doesnt change its first impressions. I have faith though as I really like what I am hearing from YoshiP pertaining to pleasing both the hardcore and the casual player.

Your honestly seeing MMO history in the making here, so stop crying about wanting your epic lootz that no one else can have and instead just sit back and enjoy the ride and hope the tires dont blow out, or you may be left without a car, cause itll be a while till another one that tickles you particular fancy comes along any time soon.