Why Casual Friendly Would Stop ARR From Dying

[Chardrizard]

GW2 has a good direction when it comes to instanced dungeons which i really like.

You get 20 tokens when you finished a dungeon, but you get extra 40 tokens if that is the first one you do today. So you get 60 DH tokens if you cleared it today, but only get 20 if you re-cleared it. However, if you go CC, it will counts as the first time you clear it today, so you will get 60 CC tokens.

Hardcores can still spam the dungeons to get equips asap as there is no reentry timer but they only get (40)20+20+20 until the next day, the casuals will just do one type of dungeon every other day, one day they will do a CC, AV, DH only and get 60 tokens of each dungeons and do the same the next day, this way they can catch up easier but hardcores will still have the privelege to be the players wearing the equips the first time, while the casuals may have to wait for weeks to complete a set if they are only doing one of each dungeon everyday.

[strallaalaa]

if you have no time then don't play. how hard is that. casuals already ruining mmo's more and more with every mmo that launches and there hasn't been a truly successful mmo since they started trying to accommodate you. simply put if you don't put things together, parties in mmo's now, that means you never will and you will always want the type of players that will put things together in your mmo's(or the need for more and more easier and solo content, gw2 failure) ...but they leave cause the mmo is to your liking not theirs and then you leave too if not left already cause you think a mmo is just like any other shitty offline game.

when you cancel a mmo payment (aka quit game or take a small leave) they should pop up a questionnaire just like the ones that pop up when you try to delete some software off your computer. that way SE and all mmo companies will know exactly why they are losing people, but in reality i think they know.

casuals leave regularly, hardcore leave cause the game sucks and to easy and nothing to do, everyone else leaves cause we are the life and soul of a mmo. /end for the mmo and it goes f2p. they have spent the past 10years trying to dub wow but wow wasn't this casual friendly from what i understand at the start and i read that it went back to hardcore again in the last few expansions too.

separate servers as i mentioned a million times in a million posts in a million forums for a million mmo's but anyway. till they listen they can keep failing mmo's. top to bottom it must be made for hardcore not casual and then do as you please to lower settings for the others. what is the worste that will happen? casuals beat the mmo and try out hard mode? or quit like they would of anyway but you still got all the hardcore playing for years and years.

[Duelle]

Does content require character progression to be fulfilling?

In one word, yes. Otherwise it's fluff. Fluff is nice to have as a way to round out the amount of content your game has, but as content targetted to a specific player demographic, not quite.

Whens the last time you heard someone say 'CC' in a heroic? Burning Crusade x__x

Oh right, back when the only options for DPS were hunters, mages, warlocks and sometimes rogues, because everyone else did not have CC built into their class and were as such kicked to the curb. Even with my paladin having buffed-post-WotLK Repentence, I still wouldn't wish that fate on anyone.

[MrKupo]

A lot of people do coke. A lot of people continue to do coke despite knowing they have a problem. Doesn't mean cocaine is good. Yeah it's successful. Dealers make some crazy bank off of it. But it doesn't mean that everyone should take a career in dealing the stuff.

Taking the easy way out for success is deplorable and many fans of the franchise will bug out I think. Plus, whatever happened to the 80/20 rule? It's the 20% of customers that will be loyal to you and keep the money coming, not the 80% that will just move on to the next game when it comes out.

Also, I apologize for my completely random analogies.

[Andrien]

if you have no time then don't play. how hard is that. casuals already ruining mmo's more and more with every mmo that launches and there hasn't been a truly successful mmo since they started trying to accommodate you. simply put if you don't put things together, parties in mmo's now, that means you never will and you will always want the type of players that will put things together in your mmo's(or the need for more and more easier and solo content, gw2 failure) ...but they leave cause the mmo is to your liking not theirs and then you leave too if not left already [B]cause you think a mmo is just like any other shitty offline game.

when you cancel a mmo payment (aka quit game or take a small leave) they should pop up a questionnaire just like the ones that pop up when you try to delete some software off your computer. that way SE and all mmo companies will know exactly why they are losing people, but in reality i think they know.

casuals leave regularly, hardcore leave cause the game sucks and to easy and nothing to do, everyone else leaves cause we are the life and soul of a mmo. /end for the mmo and it goes f2p.

separate servers as i mentioned a million times in a million posts in a million forums for a million mmo's but anyway. till they listen they can keep failing mmo's. top to bottom it must be made for hardcore not casual and then do as you please to lower settings for the others. what is the worste that will happen? casuals beat the mmo and try out hard mode? or quit like they would of anyway but you still got all the hardcore playing for years and years.

This is complete and utter nonsense. This thread of full of bias one-sided mentality.

Okay so, you basically blame casual players for ruining mmos? I wonder who you'll blame for the FFXIV original launch. You know what, even the most successful MMORPG is casual friendly. The bottom line is, the entire argument in this thread is really a none issue, because it all boils down to how the developers produce the contents.

People that like the Final Fantasy franchise and wants to try FFXIV ARR for the first time. Square Enix as a company have to attract and gain the trust of those fans after a poorly launch FFXIV 1.xx. FFXIV ARR have to cater to all audiences, not just one or the other. The game has to be fun, and their must be some form of progression to keep people playing.

[HiirNoivl]

GW2 has a good direction when it comes to instanced dungeons which i really like.

You get 20 tokens when you finished a dungeon, but you get extra 40 tokens if that is the first one you do today. So you get 60 DH tokens if you cleared it today, but only get 20 if you re-cleared it. However, if you go CC, it will counts as the first time you clear it today, so you will get 60 CC tokens.

Hardcores can still spam the dungeons to get equips asap as there is no reentry timer but they only get (40)20+20+20 until the next day, the casuals will just do one type of dungeon every other day, one day they will do a CC, AV, DH only and get 60 tokens of each dungeons and do the same the next day, this way they can catch up easier but hardcores will still have the privelege to be the players wearing the equips the first time, while the casuals may have to wait for weeks to complete a set if they are only doing one of each dungeon everyday.

I like this idea. Coupled with a great Party Find system, it would make the game really fun and fulfilling, even if you don't have a lot of time (or don't WANT to spend a lot of time)

[Nel_Celestine]

A balance is required. Not just 'Hardcore' or 'Casual'.

If SE caters to only the Hardcore and Elite players as some seem to think casuals ruin MMOs, lets use some rough math. This is by no means accurate but just a rough.

500,000 people playing a game are the player base. Not a lot but just an example for easy rounder numbers.

lets say.. 10% of the population is 'HardCore' and 'Elite' because clearly not everyone, or even most people can be at that tier because it's only the best of the best right?

so that would mean 50,000 members would be that level. If SE only catered to them, the other 450,000 people would leave and 50,000 would not be enough to keep the game aloft, causing it to collapse in on itself.

However, if the content is all easy and completed super fast, then 450,000 members would get bored and move on to something else.

So there needs to be a delicate line that they walk between casual friendly, hardcore friendly and successful. Not just one or the other.

[strallaalaa]

This is complete and utter nonsense. This thread of full of bias one-sided mentality.

Okay so, you basically blame casual players for ruining mmos? I wonder who you'll blame for the FFXIV original launch. You know what, even the most successful MMORPG is casual friendly. The bottom line is, the entire argument in this thread is really a none issue, because it all boils down to how the developers produce the contents.

People that like the Final Fantasy franchise and wants to try FFXIV ARR for the first time. Square Enix as a company have to attract and gain the trust of those fans after a poorly launch FFXIV 1.xx. FFXIV ARR have to cater to all audiences, not just one or the other. The game has to be fun, and their must be some form of progression to keep people playing.

how am i bias, you picked out lines from a very long thread i made with my opinions mixed in it. but there was tons of non opinionated thoughts in it that aren't bias. i said make it for all players. but that includes non casuals. start "scientificly, mathematically and logically" by making it for hardcore and then "yep dumb it down" for the rest. this means everyone plays happy.

just cause i think you as a casual is a fuk tard don't mean my thread didn't make sense to any normal human being. ffxiv first fail had nothing to do with casual friendly it had to do with no content. a broken server engine that they couldn't do anything with and still launched an empty broken game that they had problems adding things too. then problem now will be that, that gave the loud mouths on forums more power then they should have. most players don't vote on forums or talk on them or whatever else. they cancel and log out and never come back.

in the end if i'm biased then it is from 10years of mmo's that suck and unenjoyment and bitterness. listening to this garbage talk on these forums that mmo companies are stupid enough to listen too cause they truely want it to be true. they want casuals by the millions and they want hardcore to play just cause what else they gonna do, not play?

just like movies and tv programs mmo's are trending to try and get more and more types of players but ...guess what it's not a 1movie in theater they can trick people into watching once in theater. it's a monthly, (like a tv series) and it will get canceled ..over and over and over cause we see it as it is...shit.

like i said add a questionnaire at the cancel button in the manage account page and they will know exactly why people leave.

[Andrien]

how am i bias, you picked out lines from a very long thread i made with my opinions in it. but there was tons of non opinionated thoughts in it that aren't bias. i said make it for all players. but that includes non casuals. start "scientificly, mathematically and logically" by making it for hardcore and then "yep dumb it down" for the rest. this means everyone plays happy.

just cause i think you as a casual is a fuk tard don't mean my thread didn't make sense to any normal human being. ffxiv first fail had nothing to do with casual friendly it had to do with no content. a broken server engine that they couldn't do anything with and still launched an empty broken game that they had problems adding things too. then problem now will be that, that gave the loud mouths on forums more power then they should have. most players don't vote on forums or talk on them or whatever else. they cancel and log out and never come back.

in the end if i'm biased then it is from 10years of mmo's that suck and unenjoyment and bitterness. listening to this garbage talk on these forums that mmo companies are stupid enough to listen too cause they truely want it to be true. they want casuals by the millions and they want hardcore to play just cause what else they gonna do, not play?

just like movies and tv programs mmo's are trending to try and get more and more types of players but ...guess what it's not a 1movie in theater they can trick people into watching once in theater. it's a monthly, (like a tv series) and it will get canceled ..over and over and over cause we see it as it is...shit.

like i said add a questionnaire at the cancel button in the manage account page and they will know exactly why people leave.

It all depends on how the developers implement and produce the contents. It has nothing to do with the players really is what I'm getting at. We just have to play them and if the content is engaging it'll keep everyone hooked.

I think the questionnaire is a great idea.

[EinSoFZ]

Wow, this thread is pretty deep. In my opinion appealing to either casual or hardcore players isn't the problem, it's giving them both something to do. Believe it or not, without those 24/7 players being happy an MMO is just as likely to fail. You can't look at WoW and tell me there aren't hundreds of thousands of such people playing it; they're playing content which suits them such that they still want to play.

As far as FFXIV goes, I say bring back the level caps of FFXI. Level caps served an excellent purpose other than to annoy the hell out of you; they created content where even a level 75 was forced back into a weak a puny body. There was no, "hey, let's just get a couple of 75's and zerg rush this mission so we're done with it!" mentality. Everything required time, effort, some degree of skill and more than that it was actually FUN. I know some players will turn their noses up, but with level caps you always had something you could potentially do; missions, quests, random battles for loot yadda yadda yadada. They are not the evil things some people think they are. They are for those at endgame and those who have yet to reach it. Now think about that.

People hear casual and figure that they must make it piss easy; that is incorrect logic. Casuals want progression too. The difference is they do not generally have 24/7 to invest into said progression. The content can still be difficult. Let's not water down a game because we believe that's the only way to keep those casuals playing. Even a casual will quit when they reach the bottom of the glass. Too easy is boring for everyone.