Why not abolish the Class system entirely in favor of Jobs? [@ Devs]

[Zoloe]

I am a new Gladiator who just started the game. My weapons available to me are a sword+shield or a two-handed sword. I am given the option to focus on being a tank or become a DPS. That lv.1-30 area gives me the opportunity to decide which feeling or style of play I enjoy more. When I reach lv.30 I decide that I enjoy DPS more, which I decide to become a Dark Knight. What I also like is if I decide down the road I don't enjoy one role, I can start Paladin and see if that sparks for me.

What an awesome idea!
I've always thought it would be really cool to branch the classes out in this way, having them use multiple weapons that later become a defining weapon for a specific job. Maybe, at later levels, they could get more advanced weapons that are specific to that job.... scythe anyone? (everyone wants Dark Knight)

[Azurus]

Hmm, I don't think the Class system has really gotten an opportunity to shine with the Job system yet. While perhaps not completely necessary to have, it does offer some good footing for areas like PvP, where classes that can customize itself more may be more beneficial than a Job which only excels in certain areas.

I "kind of" look at it as a talent tree from other MMO's. The Class System looks weird just because it really hasn't given you options yet.

I will try some examples:

I am a new Gladiator who just started the game. My weapons available to me are a sword+shield or a two-handed sword. I am given the option to focus on being a tank or become a DPS. That lv.1-30 area gives me the opportunity to decide which feeling or style of play I enjoy more. When I reach lv.30 I decide that I enjoy DPS more, which I decide to become a Dark Knight. What I also like is if I decide down the road I don't enjoy one role, I can start Paladin and see if that sparks for me.

WoW actually approaches classes like this also, not to the extent of FFXIV, but they do put you on a blank slate before choosing your role. Like if you are a Paladin in that game, the first ten levels gives you a little access to all roles you can become. Lv.10 comes around and then your talent tree is activated and you choose which role you prefer the most. Rather it be Retribution(DPS), Holy(Healing), or Protection(Tanking). You are given the option within a class.

FFXIV does almost the same exact thing as I said above. Perhaps to more of a extreme level, but I do get the purpose of keeping the Class system intact. They have already said in the past that Classes will still have it's advantages. My guess mostly is on the PvP side like I said above. Assuming you can still use abilities of other classes. It does actually sound clunky in a balance sense, but I guess we will see how they decide to approach it.

tl;dr: The Class system can work, it just needs time to flourish itself.

i dont know if you have sources for this example, but otherwise you have no way of knowing any of this as we have no idea how this is going to work post 2.0. Hell if DRK comes from gld then we are in big trouble as gld skills literally add nothing to DRK, MRD would be a better choice, but that aside, I feel like if they are going to make the system work, theyd have to open up more weapon choices to classes so you can "specialize" as you call it, and depending ont he weapon you are using it determines the sets of skills you unlock, that way as a DRK you have radically different skills from your WAR counterpart from the same class.

[Shougun]

Fun idea before you think of it as running Velhart.

GLD doesnt have the skill set for DRK - the DRK sphere would have to kill a lot of GLD spells and then introduce a lot of its own. (Basically make a new class)

Otherwise you are going to have a very boring Drk. Going to dps you with my rampage phalanx skills!!! ;/

So then you either give skills that make no sense to be taken, or you create a very convoluted "take x" "get new x" "dont get new x" "new weapon y" and even while that would work it still wouldn't be a truly designed towards dark knight from gld.

while the inconsistencies if taken to the base and just saying "screw it"... the system will/can work.. its just... ugh.. why...

[Raagnar]

Fun idea before you think of it as running Velhart.

GLD doesnt have the skill set for DRK - the DRK sphere would have to kill a lot of GLD spells and then introduce a lot of its own. (Basically make a new class)

Otherwise you are going to have a very boring Drk. Going to dps you with my rampage phalanx skills!!! ;/

So then you either give skills that make no sense to be taken, or you create a very convoluted "take x" "get new x" "dont get new x" "new weapon y" and even while that would work it still wouldn't be a truly designed towards dark knight from gld.

while the inconsistencies if taken to the base and just saying "screw it"... the system will/can work.. its just... ugh.. why...

You forget about the sub class. GLA + THM + 5 DRK specific abilities/spells. We dont need a bunch of useless spells like ffxi.

And btw... what?? I dont even know what youre trying to say there. DRK sphere has to kill GLD spells?

[Shougun]

You forget about the sub class. GLA + THM + 5 DRK specific abilities/spells. We dont need a bunch of useless spells like ffxi.

Imo that is still a very lame/themed "Dark Knight". You may be happy with "cut here" "copy there" tada look its a disfigured new job.. but I'm not. (Also the THM addresses nothing about the physical DPS drk requires)

I can deal. But its not very pretty.


Sphere is the job sphere, the soul stones.

Drk doesnt have defensive spells - the GLD has defensive spells but those spells must carry into PLD. SO you have to have the sphere itself have the ability to kill certain class skills.

[Raagnar]

Imo that is still a very lame/themed "Dark Knight". You may be happy with "cut here" "copy there" tada look its a disfigured new job.. but I'm not. (Also the THM addresses nothing about the physical DPS drk requires)

I can deal. But its not very pretty.

Still.. what? youve been dealing this entire time. This is how all jobs are currently put together, 2 classes + 5 new abilities = job

[Shougun]

Still.. what? youve been dealing this entire time. This is how all jobs are currently put together, 2 classes + 5 new abilities = job

So what? These forums are for feedback and someone started a thread on something I find annoying.

I know how all jobs are put together stating it is awkward.

[Velhart]

i dont know if you have sources for this example, but otherwise you have no way of knowing any of this as we have no idea how this is going to work post 2.0. Hell if DRK comes from gld then we are in big trouble as gld skills literally add nothing to DRK, MRD would be a better choice, but that aside, I feel like if they are going to make the system work, theyd have to open up more weapon choices to classes so you can "specialize" as you call it, and depending ont he weapon you are using it determines the sets of skills you unlock, that way as a DRK you have radically different skills from your WAR counterpart from the same class.

Fun idea before you think of it as running Velhart.

GLD doesnt have the skill set for DRK - the DRK sphere would have to kill a lot of GLD spells and then introduce a lot of its own. (Basically make a new class)

Otherwise you are going to have a very boring Drk. Going to dps you with my rampage phalanx skills!!! ;/

So then you either give skills that make no sense to be taken, or you create a very convoluted "take x" "get new x" "dont get new x" "new weapon y" and even while that would work it still wouldn't be a truly designed towards dark knight from gld.

while the inconsistencies if taken to the base and just saying "screw it"... the system will/can work.. its just... ugh.. why...

To the both of you, the GLD > PLD - DRK was only there to explain my example, don't think too hard about it.

Yoshida has also said many times that more than one job will stem from a class. I really thought everyone would know this by now.

Ohh and one more thing. How do you all know what the ability palette will be in 2.0? With the new system in place, we could have a whole new set of abilities, or we can have the same exact thing. We don't know 100% yet. So saying DRK wouldn't work on GLD is only a statement you could consider in the current version. I would wait and see what GLD offers in 2.0 before jumping to conclusions.

[Shougun]

To the both of you, the GLD > PLD - DRK was only there to explain my example, don't think too hard about it.

Yoshida has also said many times that more than one job will stem from a class. I really thought everyone would know this by now.

He said it can happen. Not that it will. And he said the battle team is looking into how feasible it is (meaning they are testing it).

Honestly if we have to use two jobs per class system (because a 1:1 ratio is way worse) then I think MRD - > DRK + THM would probably be better.

Ohh and one more thing. How do you all know what the ability palette will be in 2.0? With the new system in place, we could have a whole new set of abilities, or we can have the same exact thing. We don't know 100% yet. So saying DRK wouldn't work on GLD is only a statement you could consider in the current version. I would wait and see what GLD offers in 2.0 before jumping to conclusions.

This whole thread is theorycrafting - we dont need to know. When we know we change our theories. Please dont use this as an "acceptable" way to shut people up as it is far from being correct.

[Velhart]

He said it can happen. Not that it will. And he said the battle team is looking into how feasible it is (meaning they are testing it).

Honestly if we have to use two jobs per class system (because a 1:1 ratio is way worse) then I think MRD - > DRK + THM would probably be better.

I added something to my above post before you posted yours:

Ohh and one more thing. How do you all know what the ability palette will be in 2.0? With the new system in place, we could have a whole new set of abilities, or we can have the same exact thing. We don't know 100% yet. So saying DRK wouldn't work on GLD is only a statement you could consider in the current version. I would wait and see what GLD offers in 2.0 before jumping to conclusions.