FF14: ARR! World class MMOs? Must be Free to play, League of Legends! enough said .

[Shiki_Lockhart]

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[Lirion]

A world class mmo is not based on how you to pay to play it...

The game is not going free to play though, Yoshida already spoke about this. Since this game is funded and developed by S-E they don't have any investors they have to pay back quickly, they can take their time. If this game was funded by EA then you would probably see a free to play model as it happened with EA and Bioware.

So enough of these threads.

[Kallivis]

WoW is the only MMO that can live healthy on sub base that can hold 5mils subs for years never drop that mark. and it'll stay that way.


Im sure ARR will pass ff11 on subs numbers, but need like 100-200%+ (1mil-2mil) stayble within a year if not ARR will be force to Free to play.

A nice mmo like ARR that have 1mil-2mil stayble subs can go long way, if that ever happen 1mil-2mils can grow 2-3 times in subs in 2-3 years. but for that to happen looking at % is only at 35% that will happen.



as for WoW have what % subs in the MMO market , they should be in the 50%+ to the whole mmo market sub base, if only can steal 25% out of them.

Don't get a job in economics.

[fusional]

dumb dumb dumb dumb dumb

[Majidah]

It'd be idiotic, idiotic, for SE to go with a F2P model.

Just because some run of the mill generic MMORPGs do it, it doesn't mean everyone should.

If you take a look at MMORPG models the triple A titles never use this method.

Also a lot of people, me included, would quit XIV if it got into microtransactions and selling gil.

[Akira_Tenshi]

Why don't you just let Square worry about the subscription model. If you don't want to pay simply don't play the game. If a subscription fee does not work they will look at other options, so why even worry about it.

[Preypacer]

Whether FFXIV can survive on a subscription model has nothing to do with whether it goes free-to-play. It depends on the size of the team that developed it, the persistent cost of the server infrastructure, and the size of the team that maintains it and develops new content for it.

Frankly, it will be a long time before FFXIV will be profitable for Square|Enix, no matter what its subscription base ends up being, or whether it goes F2P or not. It's an MMO that's been almost completely restarted, in addition to its initial up-front cost and ongoing server maintenance. It's also possible (maybe even likely) that FFXIV will never be profitable, and that Yoichi Wada knows this, and that 2.0 is more about saving face and repairing his company's tarnished reputation.

I believe free-to-play will result in a worsened play experience than a subscription model. Free-to-play incentivizes developers to water-down the base experience of a game in favor of the up-sold version. It creates pressure for them to contact their users as frequently as possible to try and sell them on the game's paid-for assets. This is why free-to-play games usually become pay-to-win: You've turned the game from a service to a retail outlet. It's the same difference between a fitness club and Wal*Mart. I don't want to give Square Enix an incentive to email me reminders that I haven't played recently, or to give them an incentive to make paid-for weapons of any sort better than the weapons I'll earn in-game. If you ask for the game to go free-to-play, these things will happen. That, or the quests will become for-pay, similar to Dungeons and Dragons Online. Or the player customization. Or maybe even the different zones of the world. Possibly, all of these things. Whatever it is you like most - whatever would make you pay the most - that's what Square Enix is best off barring from you until you pay real money. That's the business model you're asking them to go into. That's what you're asking them to do.

League of Legends is no exception: They operate as a retail outlet for characters and customization, with what could really only be described as a free online trial. They have almost no map or gameplay options. You find a hero you like in the random roster? Then you have to wait for them to cycle back into the roster, or you have to pay real money. And you want the latest Teemo skin? Money, money, money by the pound.

And as a game developer, myself, I tend to find the free-to-play model ethically questionable. Free-to-play games survive on what are called "whales". These are people who spend thousands - thousands - of dollars every month. I can't understand what drives these people to spend this kind of money, and I can't imagine that it represents a healthy relationship with the game. Knowing that they exist leaves me wishing never to work on a free-to-play project.

But in summation, I suppose if you'd really be happy paying nothing and doing nothing except grinding vanilla mobs in New Gridania, then I guess I can't stop you from asking for free-to-play. But please stop jumping on the free-to-play bandwagon as if it will make the game free for you without fundamentally altering your play experience. It will not.

Edit: Oh. Bother. Obviously I fell for the troll.

Whether you've fed a troll or not (and I suspect you may have), yours is a post well worth reading, so I gave ya a 'Thumbs Up' regardless. Very well said.

That said, I've also reported the OP because these threads are out of hand now. Does anyone else get the feeling like this could be some kind of organized push going on, and these aren't random posts from completely unrelated people? Not saying "it definitely is". But man, the timing of it all of a sudden... It's like they're trying to sway SE to implement it before ARR releases by creating some fake sense of "demand". So far it's been, what... 6 people in favor of, and pretty much everyone else against? Yeah, I think that sends a clear message, and it ain't a pro-F2P one.

[Conradus]

WoW is the only MMO that can live healthy on sub base that can hold 5mils subs for years never drop that mark. and it'll stay that way.


Im sure ARR will pass ff11 on subs numbers, but need like 100-200%+ (1mil-2mil) stayble within a year if not ARR will be force to Free to play.

A nice mmo like ARR that have 1mil-2mil stayble subs can go long way, if that ever happen 1mil-2mils can grow 2-3 times in subs in 2-3 years. but for that to happen looking at % is only at 35% that will happen.



as for WoW have what % subs in the MMO market , they should be in the 50%+ to the whole mmo market sub base, if only can steal 25% out of them.

You are massively overestimating how many subs a subscription fee based MMO needs to have. If you've got a few hundred thousand, it's more than enough--even more would be better, but it's enough.

[Zezil]

We already pass this tread over nine thousand time... so just leave it be..

[RexValentino]

Whether FFXIV can survive on a subscription model has nothing to do with whether it goes free-to-play. It depends on the size of the team that developed it, the persistent cost of the server infrastructure, and the size of the team that maintains it and develops new content for it.

Frankly, it will be a long time before FFXIV will be profitable for Square|Enix, no matter what its subscription base ends up being, or whether it goes F2P or not. It's an MMO that's been almost completely restarted, in addition to its initial up-front cost and ongoing server maintenance. It's also possible (maybe even likely) that FFXIV will never be profitable, and that Yoichi Wada knows this, and that 2.0 is more about saving face and repairing his company's tarnished reputation.

I believe free-to-play will result in a worsened play experience than a subscription model. Free-to-play incentivizes developers to water-down the base experience of a game in favor of the up-sold version. It creates pressure for them to contact their users as frequently as possible to try and sell them on the game's paid-for assets. This is why free-to-play games usually become pay-to-win: You've turned the game from a service to a retail outlet. It's the same difference between a fitness club and Wal*Mart. I don't want to give Square Enix an incentive to email me reminders that I haven't played recently, or to give them an incentive to make paid-for weapons of any sort better than the weapons I'll earn in-game. If you ask for the game to go free-to-play, these things will happen. That, or the quests will become for-pay, similar to Dungeons and Dragons Online. Or the player customization. Or maybe even the different zones of the world. Possibly, all of these things. Whatever it is you like most - whatever would make you pay the most - that's what Square Enix is best off barring from you until you pay real money. That's the business model you're asking them to go into. That's what you're asking them to do.

League of Legends is no exception: They operate as a retail outlet for characters and customization, with what could really only be described as a free online trial. They have almost no map or gameplay options. You find a hero you like in the random roster? Then you have to wait for them to cycle back into the roster, or you have to pay real money. And you want the latest Teemo skin? Money, money, money by the pound.

And as a game developer, myself, I tend to find the free-to-play model ethically questionable. Free-to-play games survive on what are called "whales". These are people who spend thousands - thousands - of dollars every month. I can't understand what drives these people to spend this kind of money, and I can't imagine that it represents a healthy relationship with the game. Knowing that they exist leaves me wishing never to work on a free-to-play project.

But in summation, I suppose if you'd really be happy paying nothing and doing nothing except grinding vanilla mobs in New Gridania, then I guess I can't stop you from asking for free-to-play. But please stop jumping on the free-to-play bandwagon as if it will make the game free for you without fundamentally altering your play experience. It will not.

Edit: Oh. Bother. Obviously I fell for the troll.

I enjoyed reading this post. It gave me things to think about that i never thought of before.