We all get it. You don't like jumping. Let's discuss something else worthwhile now.

[Zezlar]

Interestingly enough in the last 10 pages alone there are more threads about people complaining about people voicing their concerns than there are people actually voicing concerns. (3 vs. 2)

Everyone has a right to voice their opinion, even if you do not share that same concern. It doesn't make you right to tell them to stop complaining, because then we get a game as crappy as 1.0 is. Also it isn't right to tell people there are "loads" of others who share your concern because you'll never obtain that proof.

I think it's clear that we all want ARR to a fantastic game, but to sit back and tell people that have legitimate fears to essentially shut up is wrong. I'll voice my concern over the running animations, and the amount of times people jump because for me as a player it's an eyesore. Also last time I checked we all paid a subscription fee, so no one of our opinions is better than anyone elses.

[Elexia]

Interestingly enough in the last 10 pages alone there are more threads about people complaining about people voicing their concerns than there are people actually voicing concerns. (3 vs. 2)

Everyone has a right to voice their opinion, even if you do not share that same concern. It doesn't make you right to tell them to stop complaining, because then we get a game as crappy as 1.0 is. Also it isn't right to tell people there are "loads" of others who share your concern because you'll never obtain that proof.

I think it's clear that we all want ARR to a fantastic game, but to sit back and tell people that have legitimate fears to essentially shut up is wrong. I'll voice my concern over the running animations, and the amount of times people jump because for me as a player it's an eyesore. Also last time I checked we all paid a subscription fee, so no one of our opinions is better than anyone elses.

Yep, the "shut up" is why I feel ARR will fail, once NA get into alpha and people start posting concerns and feedback, you'll get the same people telling them to shut up lol.

Yoshida is smart, but he listens to the loudest group, and the loudest group are the ones telling people to stfu and gtfo currently. Jumping is an eye sore in a game with a realistic appeal to it's graphics, which is why while Uncharted is a good game..hax jumping all over the place like Nathan does just looks silly when you step back and look at aesthetics of the game.

I can understand some people's concerns with Jumping, especially since jumping serves no purpose but to just jump..we won't be exploring with it (it's already apparent even just from these videos), so some people feel it shouldn't even be there..cool...however, the animations are a bigger issue. While he says there's no physics in until beta, that could change things..but for now it just looks..off.

[Delsus]

Yep, the "shut up" is why I feel ARR will fail, once NA get into alpha and people start posting concerns and feedback, you'll get the same people telling them to shut up lol.

Yoshida is smart, but he listens to the loudest group, and the loudest group are the ones telling people to stfu and gtfo currently. Jumping is an eye sore in a game with a realistic appeal to it's graphics, which is why while Uncharted is a good game..hax jumping all over the place like Nathan does just looks silly when you step back and look at aesthetics of the game.

I can understand some people's concerns with Jumping, especially since jumping serves no purpose but to just jump..we won't be exploring with it (it's already apparent even just from these videos), so some people feel it shouldn't even be there..cool...however, the animations are a bigger issue. While he says there's no physics in until beta, that could change things..but for now it just looks..off.

Again another ARR will fail post, the reason people are telling people talking about jumping is because every video released (even though they are probably all based on the same alpha phase) people are complaining about the same things. Yes there are animation problems, some things that need tweaking with jumping but wait until alpha and keep to one thread about something, the complainers will kill the game because they fragment feedback in all manner of threads, an alpha video "jumping sucks, make it better" in an animations thread "jumping needs better animations" or just 3977637652036 different jumping threads, that take a lot of time to weed out, and find.

If you think ARR will fail, tell me why are you still here? Move on and let us laugh at you in secret when it succeeds.

[Elexia]

Again another ARR will fail post, the reason people are telling people talking about jumping is because every video released (even though they are probably all based on the same alpha phase) people are complaining about the same things.

People are complaining and showing concern about stuff that's laid before them. Unless you purposefully adverted your eyes from leak materials, you'll realize that SE has a long way to go with certain things if they expect to really make this game succeed.

However, everything you post basically says people should accept everything SE does and gives us.

[Delsus]

People are complaining and showing concern about stuff that's laid before them. Unless you purposefully adverted your eyes from leak materials, you'll realize that SE has a long way to go with certain things if they expect to really make this game succeed.

However, everything you post basically says people should accept everything SE does and gives us.

No what I am saying is post in the existing threads not in 18727201 different threads, I have seen at least 20 on Jumping, with fragmented posts all over, you don't get anything purposely making rep's and devs lives hard, that's a surefire way of ensuring the game will fail. The mass of trolling doesn't help either (yes by you as well).

Again all I see from you is "ARR will fail" "FFXIV sucks" etc etc with no feedback. give constructive feedback for the devs they can use, I have given my fair share of feedback, but you definitely haven't.

I love how you left that part (a good argument) out of your quote.

[Duelle]

People are complaining and showing concern about stuff that's laid before them. Unless you purposefully adverted your eyes from leak materials, you'll realize that SE has a long way to go with certain things if they expect to really make this game succeed.

However, everything you post basically says people should accept everything SE does and gives us.

Not really. You've been throwing the whole "generic" diatribe since quested leveling and duty finder were revealed. Then you went on about how XIV will be like every other MMO just because it has some features that have become standard.

Jumping is a stupid thing to complain over. As I mentioned long ago, the Ji Firepaw controversy (someone bitched loud enough to get Blizzard to change Ji's dialogue because apparently him telling female player characters that they're good looking is sexist and offensive) has a better base in reality than what I've seen on these forums over jumping. And I thought that thing was also stupid as all hell. Just not to the lows the jump hate has reached.

As Mog states, it's also preventing discussion on more important topics. I understand that concrete information is scarce because we have few details on character progression aside what Yoshida has mentioned, dungeon design has been barely touched upon, class design (especially for arcanist/summoner) is still a bunch of base concepts without any ability examples or gameplay videos, boss fights relative to the new battle system are still a mystery, and so on. The fixation on something as trivial as jumping is going to hurt the game more than any feature from Rift, WoW or GW2 ported into XIV.

Odd is the day when I agree with Mog.

[EinSoFZ]

Yep, the "shut up" is why I feel ARR will fail

No offense, but I think most would agree that you tend the see the glass as being half empty. It's like, nothing is ever good enough for you. I'm sure it's just your opinion, but you kind of project your personal feelings onto everyone else including the developers of this game.

ARR will fail if it's not a good game that draws people into paying money to play it. I don't think that hinges on what we say in the forums. They can take much of what we say to heart to make modifications which in the end serve to make the game better, but ultimately the ball is in their court. NAs are no worse than JPs; they're are just more people in the world outside of Japan believe it or not; the community is much larger.

I know people often say "this is still Alpha", but it really is. From now until release they may decide to remove jumping. Any number of changes will occur. Pray it goes for the best and stop this negative take on everything you seem to have. It's really not helping either.

Between the awfulness of 1.0 and what they've learned, I think they'll do a super job on ARR. Whether jump is included or not, to me, is largely irrelevant since that's just a tiny aspect of our gameplay. If you're obsessing over jumping this early, you are doing it wrong.

[Elexia]

No offense, but I think most would agree that you tend the see the glass as being half empty. It's like, nothing is ever good enough for you. I'm sure it's just your opinion, but you kind of project your personal feelings onto everyone else including the developers of this game.

ARR will fail if it's not a good game that draws people into paying money to play it. I don't think that hinges on what we say in the forums. They can take much of what we say to heart to make modifications which in the end serve to make the game better, but ultimately the ball is in their court. NAs are no worse than JPs; they're are just more people in the world outside of Japan believe it or not; the community is much larger.

I know people often say "this is still Alpha", but it really is. From now until release they may decide to remove jumping. Any number of changes will occur. Pray it goes for the best and stop this negative take on everything you seem to have. It's really not helping either.

Between the awfulness of 1.0 and what they've learned, I think they'll do a super job on ARR. Whether jump is included or not, to me, is largely irrelevant since that's just a tiny aspect of our gameplay. If you're obsessing over jumping this early, you are doing it wrong.

Exactly, since we know above all that Yoshida wants to take all feedback to heart, if you're telling people to not complain or show concerns..they won't realistically get the feedback they'll need if you're trying to overpower the other side of the argument.

Any number of changes will occur

This is the main thing some people haven't really thought about, they can change anything at any time, but Yoshida always says: "Please tell me(us) how you feel about (x)", yet you have some people saying they're not allow to tell them how they feel unless it's absolutely positive or else it's considered trolling.

No one can deny if you tell people to "shut up" about issues things won't always end up well, which is exactly what alpha and beta are for, which is why when they post alpha videos they say, in the post itself, to leave feedback and tell them what you think.

It's all on the same coin. This is why we always end up with MMOs with bad launches besides technical aspects, because you always get that group of players who tell people they aren't allowed to show concern lol. While to be fair it doesn't help developers make testing as demos nowadays, you rarely see people showing concern simply because of their excitement for wanting to play it.

If you're obsessing over jumping this early, you are doing it wrong.

Honestly, if you're obsessing over anything at any state you're simply showing concern. If you read Yoshida's latest words, even for an Alpha they wanted it to be really polished, which means it's open to be critiqued, which is why aside jumping because thats purely a personal matter, concerns about animations for example you have people shoot down because "it's just alpha"..usually by now you have the gist of what they're doing with it, usually only shaders and base animations are missing from alpha and sometimes beta..however we also heard they purposefully removed animations especially for PvP, this is why people show concern, because SE is willingly to axe assets so what do you determine is because it's "just alpha" or that's really how they want it to be?

That's why you show concern even early on and hope they will actually respond to you.

[EinSoFZ]

Exactly, since we know above all that Yoshida wants to take all feedback to heart, if you're telling people to not complain or show concerns..they won't realistically get the feedback they'll need if you're trying to overpower the other side of the argument.

I myself wouldn't tell people not to complain, but I would say they should be very direct with their complaints and less vague about them. That the criticism is constructive is important above all. Often what we're getting is people complaining to complain. I suppose that makes them feel better, but it doesn't tell Yoshi how to improve the game.

Rather than say "I don't like x thing I saw", state why and be detailed in describing what could be done to improve it. Stating that you think something looks silly isn't really a valid criticism at all and too many people have opinions based on no more than a comment like that.

Point? There's a proper way to show or voice concerns.

This is the main thing some people haven't really thought about, they can change anything at any time, but Yoshida always says: "Please tell me(us) how you feel about (x)", yet you have some people saying they're not allow to tell them how they feel unless it's absolutely positive or else it's considered trolling.

No one can deny if you tell people to "shut up" about issues things won't always end up well, which is exactly what alpha and beta are for, which is why when they post alpha videos they say, in the post itself, to leave feedback and tell them what you think.

It's all on the same coin. This is why we always end up with MMOs with bad launches besides technical aspects, because you always get that group of players who tell people they aren't allowed to show concern lol. While to be fair it doesn't help developers make testing as demos nowadays, you rarely see people showing concern simply because of their excitement for wanting to play it.

While I agree with you, I don't really believe being told to shut-up actually results in people doing it. Online gaming communities are pretty open and people can express their points of view at any time. If another player tells you to shut up, you'd be a fool to sacrifice your rights just because someone told you to shut up. By that I'm trying to say I don't think being told to shut up effects very much.

To me, the only way ARR can fail is if Yoshi and crew don't take player concerns stemming from the beginning until now to heart. Player feedback is key but some of it is really shitty. Like, what were they smoking while they suggested this shitty? So they have to sift out the bad from the good as far as player feedback goes while understand that like tons of other products, sometimes people DO NOT WANT what they're asking for.

Honestly, if you're obsessing over anything at any state you're simply showing concern. If you read Yoshida's latest words, even for an Alpha they wanted it to be really polished, which means it's open to be critiqued, which is why aside jumping because thats purely a personal matter, concerns about animations for example you have people shoot down because "it's just alpha"..usually by now you have the gist of what they're doing with it, usually only shaders and base animations are missing from alpha and sometimes beta..however we also heard they purposefully removed animations especially for PvP, this is why people show concern, because SE is willingly to axe assets so what do you determine is because it's "just alpha" or that's really how they want it to be?

That's why you show concern even early on and hope they will actually respond to you.

That I don't believe. I think obsessing over small details prematurely results in players being overly concerned about some issues and ignoring others because they are just in such a fury over whatever it is they've set their brain to focus on. Calm down, look at the big picture, analyze carefully what you see and experience, think about it for a while. Don't go seeing jumping(for example) and start readying your pitchforks! There is still plenty of time and the developers are listening. If they see 1 thread that is well done and 10 that are just kind of moaning, that 1 thread will a world of good better than the latter threads.

I'm trying to spell out that after players have stated their concern, complaining and moaning and lamenting its existence will at some point be pointless; the devs understand your concern since they do read. You don't have to go full mode on it just yet.

Again, I'm not telling people to ignore problems or not bring them up...just to go about it the right way. SE doesn't have to listen to up but we hope that they will. To me the best changes come about when players can play the game and let the dev make changes slowly while we are able to play it and report accurately, over time, over feelings. FFXI wasn't great overnight and neither will ARR.

[Ricky]

Yep, the "shut up" is why I feel ARR will fail, once NA get into alpha and people start posting concerns and feedback, you'll get the same people telling them to shut up lol.

Yoshida is smart, but he listens to the loudest group, and the loudest group are the ones telling people to stfu and gtfo currently. Jumping is an eye sore in a game with a realistic appeal to it's graphics, which is why while Uncharted is a good game..hax jumping all over the place like Nathan does just looks silly when you step back and look at aesthetics of the game.

I can understand some people's concerns with Jumping, especially since jumping serves no purpose but to just jump..we won't be exploring with it (it's already apparent even just from these videos), so some people feel it shouldn't even be there..cool...however, the animations are a bigger issue. While he says there's no physics in until beta, that could change things..but for now it just looks..off.

I don't know, I guess the vocal majority consists of forum goers but then again he has a lot of alpha feedback we aren't even aware of and also those players polls seem to be a fantastic idea which they REALLY listen to