Magnum opus: A dream for crafters.

[Phe]

I wouldn't say "Relic" strength

The strength should depend on the time that has to be invested.
When it takes as long to create a "Magnum Opus" as to get a Relic, the performance can be equal.

I support this idea, but i'd also like the disciples of the land to be involved as well.

[fusional]

The strength should depend on the time that has to be invested.
When it takes as long to create a "Magnum Opus" as to get a Relic, the performance can be equal.

I support this idea, but i'd also like the disciples of the land to be involved as well.

relic is about more than time invested. putting the two on equal footing just due to a time element is ridiculous.

if there are steps equally as difficult as some of the relic faction leves and ifrit extreme, then maybe there's an argument for equal stats. until then, get out of here with that mess.

This is about putting hammer to forge and coming out with something of your own that would give a Relic a run for their money Real Steel style. There's nothing even close to that in the system right now and there really should be, in my opinion.

why? because you want weapons as good as relic without having to meet performance requirements necessary to get it? because you feel entitled to having weapons as good as the people who do the relic quest... just because?

if somehow the materials to make your 'magnum opus' require battles as difficult as some relic faction leves and ifrit extreme, okay, but then why not just have relic?

because you want to be different?

what planet are you guys from?

[Hyrist]

relic is about more than time invested. putting the two on equal footing just due to a time element is ridiculous.

if there are steps equally as difficult as some of the relic faction leves and ifrit extreme, then maybe there's an argument for equal stats. until then, get out of here with that mess.

However that is what I'm pitching. You could gather meterials that were from runs such as Ifrit Extreme or Garuda, or even more difficult World Bosses or long term Guild Rewards, just as the process of Relics were done, in order to obtain comparable components.

The difference would be, these components would then have to be crafted into their necessary piece items via crafting, and could not simply be assembeled by an unknown NPC in the middle of town.

Arguably the process might even be more difficult than a relic, with the trade off of being able the customize your stats to a degree, as well as name your own Magnum opus.

because you want weapons as good as relic without having to meet performance requirements necessary to get it? because you feel entitled to having weapons as good as the people who do the relic quest... just because?

what planet are you guys from?

That added comment you edited in makes me want to smack you.

This isn't about elitism, this is about personalization and creating a crafting experience on par with the combat experience.

This is about ADDING to the variety of long term goals. And having personal ownership of your own work, which, given the amount of effort put in, shouldn't be restricted to being outshines by someone who decides to ignore crafting.


Also, I don't know what planet you're from. But I'm from earth, here there still are people who work hard to perfect their craft and make things one-of-a kind, rather than mass produce the same BS Crap over and over again.

If you want to call playing a video game an effort or a matter of weighing skill over another, go play an e-sport. I've ZERO tolerance for that sort of crap, especially when you're being needlessly defensive.

[fusional]

However that is what I'm pitching. You could gather meterials that were from runs such as Ifrit Extreme or Garuda, or even more difficult World Bosses or long term Guild Rewards, just as the process of Relics were done, in order to obtain comparable components.

ifrit extreme and garuda aren't remotely on equal levels of difficulty. garuda is super easy. if materials dropped from ifrit x, people would just cry that it's too hard. making the materials drop from even more difficult bosses than ifrit x would make the weapons incredibly rare, which would be fine- but then most people would never get them and the forums would be loaded with moaning. moreso than usual. which is already commonplace.

This isn't about elitism, this is about personalization and creating a crafting experience on par with the combat experience.

and how would you accomplish that, exactly? by making the synth a 2% success rate? have you actually experienced ifrit extreme to form a basis of comparison in the first place?

This is about ADDING to the variety of long term goals. And having personal ownership of your own work, which, given the amount of effort put in, shouldn't be restricted to being outshines by someone who decides to ignore crafting.

you're just flipping the script here. relic already takes a fair amount of effort. you have personal ownership of your 'work' in the form of successfully finishing the hardest boss battle in the game (1.0 anyway). why should it be restricted our outshone by someone who decides to ignore challenging battles?

(also, while some people just buy their relic double melds- there already is a fair amount of crafting risk/reward going on in the relic quest when you factor in most double melds probably taking an average of 5-10 class weapons to finally succeed, and making flawless pieces for those class weapons is far from a guaranteed process)

Also, I don't know what planet you're from. But I'm from earth, here there still are people who work hard to perfect their craft and make things one-of-a kind, rather than mass produce the same BS Crap over and over again.

If you want to call playing a video game an effort or a matter of weighing skill over another, go play an e-sport. I've ZERO tolerance for that sort of crap, especially when you're being needlessly defensive.

i work hard to perfect my craft. battle craft. i can assure you that's more difficult than crafting in this game, no matter how you slice it. if yoshi can somehow replicate the skill it takes to clear some of the hardest battle content in the game and apply that to crafting, fine. i won't begrudge anyone that. skill is skill. time investment is time investment. but you can't expect equal payoff without equal effort/investment. and right now there is simply no way to compare crafting an item to beating ifrit extreme.

but you're right, even though relic was designed with more hardcore players in mind, and even though yoshi gave us ifrit extreme, relic faction leves and rivenroad (h) specifically to weigh skill and reward players for it, it's me who should go play another game.

yep, seems legit.

while you're at it you should probably just beg developers to take anything in the game away that requires any skill whatsoever.

[Hyrist]

ifrit extreme and garuda aren't remotely on equal levels of difficulty. garuda is super easy. if materials dropped from ifrit x, people would just cry that it's too hard. making the materials drop from even more difficult bosses than ifrit x would make the weapons incredibly rare, which would be fine- but then most people would never get them and the forums would be loaded with moaning. moreso than usual. which is already commonplace.

And who cares about that? That's irrelevant.

Again, you on your ivory tower is looking down upon others, scared that they may find and easier path up to you. Ifrit extreme was hard, I will give you that. Many of the playerbase, myself included, coulden't complete it.

But if you're going to want to build a Magnum Opus equivilant to a Relic, then you make the dedication. If not, you settle for less. This isn't an issue, and you're trying to make it one.

[fusional]

Again, you on your ivory tower is looking down upon others, scared that they may find and easier path up to you.

...If not, you settle for less. This isn't an issue, and you're trying to make it one.

so you just directly implied twice in the same post that the process of making magnum opus would be easier than relic. and yet you want equal or superior stats... out of pride? entitlement?

based simply on your preference of crafting content over battle content?

[Hyrist]

so you just directly implied twice in the same post that the process of making magnum opus would be easier than relic. and yet you want equal or superior stats... out of pride? entitlement?

based simply on your preference of crafting content over battle content?

You keep implying that the process of crafting these items bypass battle content all together, which basically means you're not paying attention at all to the topic and should be just ignored.

Quit trying to put words into my mouth that arent there and read carefully.

While you compare that Garuda is infinitly easier than Ifrit Extreme, you are forced, by fact, to acknowledge that Garuda was a step you had to take in aquiring a relic, yes?

Then why would it be suddenly easier on the crafter to have to do the same or similiar, in addition to fights that would be of equal difficulty to Ifrit Extreme?

Again, this isn't about creating an alternative path away from battle content. Quit making it out to be. This is about creating a like-relic path for players to make like-relic weapons that are personalized, while providing the experience of hand-making their own weapon, rather than filling a set of requirements while someone else essentially puts it together for them.

To make it easier for you. Take out all the steps involving you turning in something to Rowena, and instead imagine yourself going to a specific location and crafting the next stage yourself. (This means you still have to fight Ifrit Extreme, you still have to Fight Garuda, but instead of simply turning in a key item, you're crafting these meterials to gather togehter. The items never really leave your hands.)

Now expand on that to say instead of doing ONE thing for each step, you're allowed options, and those options effect the stats your weapon winds up with.

That's what we're talking about here, are you caught up yet?

i don't really feel like you should be able to sell the weapons, though.

I actually agree with this sentiment, with one possible exception. These weapons instead of being person bound, are account bound. So in the instance you say, have one character dedicated to crafting, and another dedicated to battle, you're not restricted by that devision. However, it's just an idea and can be easily discarded.

The concept of a 'sage old artisan who crafts the battle weapon for the hero' and you be in control of both characters is one to consiter, but it is just a concept.

[valetarkus]

I think it's definitely a cool idea! But for me i can see some issues. I agree with Fusional there, that's kinda why relics are so good because they take some effort to get. But as far as altering the stat distribution on different equipment (exaple something with +3dex and +5vit could be changed to +5 dex and +5vit or whatever similar to the different materia) that would be cool. And also having a huge variety is great but as far as the look and the name goes its going to have to look and stay the same due to dev limitations and selling to others in the wards.

[Dzian]

but as far as the look and the name goes its going to have to look and stay the same due to dev limitations and selling to others in the wards.

I'd rather them be untradeable. And they'd pretty much have to be if they have any kind of power to them. Which is fine i think most people seem to want something like this as a reward for levelling crafting. A DoH end game if you will. Where you spend time mastering your crafts and becoming one with the steel that forges your blade or some other lore type aspect.

If you had a weapon on par with relic that you could simply buy it'd be broken. akin to my earlier example of going to the wards and just buying an Artemis Bow.

If they were to put this in I'd want the weapons to be on par with relic because if I was going to work towards it with my crafters I'd want something I'd actually use at the end of it. and I'd expect it to be damn hard to get. and priceless as a result of that hard work. If you were to give these weapons any kind of monetary value then they'd end up being common place. people would end up farming them up for profit. again similar to if relics were purchaseable.

It seems there is alot of argument in this thread regarding the strength of relics vs. this proposed system Magnum Opus.

I think alot of that arguement stems simply from the idea of people being able to just buy something as powerfull as relic without any of the hard work involved,

Which is why I think they'd have to be untradeable. If they were to have stats on par with relics then the difficulty in getting them needs to be on par. make them tradeable and that difficulty is non existent