Where is FFXIV headed in terms of sexism?

[Tiberious]

Who cares if women are objectified. Men are too. Dont' tell me there aren't lady's who look at Bradley cooper and don't go "OOOH GOSH HE"S SO HOT". Why are we as a society trying to squash people that look good from being proud about it? They are creating a game. It's art. You never saw a roman sculpture make something UGLY. When you CREATE something you create it to be perfect.

I'm sorry, I know the world is not perfect and not everyone looks beautiful but there's nothing wrong with those perfect forms existing other than peoples' jealousy. Next thing you know people are going to complain that MMOs don't offer handicapped characters. The characters in "Heroic" games are created to be perfect models. Role models if you will. They are HEROES for gosh sakes. This makes me angry even reading this thread. We are all becoming WAY WAY WAY too sensitive over such frivolous things.

This...is a true whiny topic.

[Colvin]

Who cares if women are objectified. Men are too. Dont' tell me there aren't lady's who look at Bradley cooper and don't go "OOOH GOSH HE"S SO HOT". Why are we as a society trying to squash people that look good from being proud about it? They are creating a game. It's art. You never saw a roman sculpture make something UGLY. When you CREATE something you create it to be perfect.

This...is a true whiny topic.

word, brother. word.

[Nuru]

My breasts bounce in real life. If my miqo'tes breasts cant bounce, my immersion is ruined!!

[Rhomagus]

incidentally Stormy Daniels considered running for office and the number of supporters she had would have given her a good run. She only couldnt because of the lack of financial backing.

I think that deciding your vote opinion on what someone wears speaks more to the inadaquacy of your "book" vs "cover" conception than anything else. I'm not sure about the edification of making an argument in a thread about "Sexism" followed up by saying you wouldnt vote for someone because of how they dress...

Not that there hasn't been quite a bit of Semantical Injection since this conversation began.

Ignoring that you didn't address what I actually asked, I did say:

This doesn't mean that she isn't capable of intellectual pursuits or that she doesn't have viable opinions on matters of importance but her looks shouldn't make me take them more seriously. If she posts anonymously on the internet and her positions aren't as well supported as her bra there's no reason I should take her more seriously or give her any more power, than another person whether that be an overweight male or a flat chested and gawky female nerd.

I specifically noted that we don't require our feminine world leaders to dress in that manner. Their leadership should be based on their experience and ability not their sexuality.

[Rhomagus]

Who cares if women are objectified. Men are too. Dont' tell me there aren't lady's who look at Bradley cooper and don't go "OOOH GOSH HE"S SO HOT". Why are we as a society trying to squash people that look good from being proud about it? They are creating a game. It's art. You never saw a roman sculpture make something UGLY. When you CREATE something you create it to be perfect.

I'm sorry, I know the world is not perfect and not everyone looks beautiful but there's nothing wrong with those perfect forms existing other than peoples' jealousy. Next thing you know people are going to complain that MMOs don't offer handicapped characters. The characters in "Heroic" games are created to be perfect models. Role models if you will. They are HEROES for gosh sakes. This makes me angry even reading this thread. We are all becoming WAY WAY WAY too sensitive over such frivolous things.

This...is a true whiny topic.

I don't think either should be objectified. I don't see anything wrong with that.

[Laiferr]

Laiferr makes a great point here in regard to the crafting Coatees. Why is it the males can have a formal look while still being respectable, while the females are forced into an outfit that overly emphasizes their erogenous zones for the same crafting stats. This is why vanity slots should be implemented. For those that like the look, fine keep them. For those that are uncomfortable with it, their gameplay shouldn't be altered at the sacrifice of personal dignity. We don't require Hillary Clinton, Angela Merkel, or Cristina Fernandez de Kirchner to wear revealing clothing in order for them to hold public office nor should we hold that requirement for women to 'have power' in Eorzea.

I think Laiferr has made her point very well. She's all for the option of revealing clothing for those that want it, but she's not supportive of the low brow direction that it may take in regards to future art direction or unwanted advances by male characters in game. I personally agree with her and if the development team is going out of it's way to create sexualized material it's more likely to attract that atmosphere and repel female gamers that don't want to be thrust into that atmosphere.

Thank you, Rhomagus! I know I'm not the best at articulating myself, so it's nice to see somebody understanding what I am trying to get at. Also, I do love Merlwyb, she's my favourite NPC by far, and I think you actually helped me to understand why I like her so much... I'd never really thought about it before! I often think reactions can be quite subconscious

It's disheartening to be constantly getting comments like those of Tiberious who are completely missing the point. I know I need to accept some people won't read the thread properly (partially my fault for making it so long) so I'm just going to stop replying to them at this point Sorry, not trying to cherry-pick replies/not ignoring people, I just feel I've explained this over and over now (I feel bad if I seem like I'm only replying to positive commentary, so just wanted to clear that up).

[Tiberious]

My breasts bounce in real life. If my miqo'tes breasts cant bounce, my immersion is ruined!!

And Breasts are nice! In all forms! If I saw yours I'd probably stare (assuming they aren't man-breasts). What do people want here? For game companies to make zitty, grey haired, flat chested, overweight women or men? The men in the game are "perfect" forms too. I'm not all ripped like the midlander Hyurs but I'm not getting my butt all chapped about it.

[Colvin]

Ignoring that you didn't address what I actually asked, I did say:

I specifically noted that we don't require our feminine world leaders to dress in that manner. Their leadership should be based on their experience and ability not their sexuality.

You were the one who started off by saying how she dressed was not empowering. I spoke specifically to that. If can get you a fan-base which, in today's world, is just about all the power you need. I'd say that 200k people liking your facebook page is pretty empowering for anyone looking to have notoriety.

Now you may not like it, but that is how the world works.

[Tiberious]

Thank you, Rhomagus! I know I'm not the best at articulating myself, so it's nice to see somebody understanding what I am trying to get at. Also, I do love Merlwyb, she's my favourite NPC by far, and I think you actually helped me to understand why I like her so much... I'd never really thought about it before! I often think reactions can be quite subconscious

It's disheartening to be constantly getting comments like those of Tiberious who are completely missing the point. I know I need to accept some people won't read the thread properly (partially my fault for making it so long) so I'm just going to stop replying to them at this point Sorry, not trying to cherry-pick replies/not ignoring people, I just feel I've explained this over and over now (I feel bad if I seem like I'm only replying to positive commentary, so just wanted to clear that up).

Woman are made to look like that because women are pretty. They are naturally beautiful and put on a pedestal as shown here. The portly women of renaissance sculptures were no different than what you see here. Back then however, that shape was more desirable. Instead of looking at this objectification why don't you look at it as men praising the female form just like we've done for thousands of years.

Edit: Also, good point Colvin. Women don't help in this particular area. Many women use their good looks to get ahead. Don't be jelly. In the end it's the smart women that wind up on top anyways. Looks only go so far. And let's not forget, you can dress your character however you want

[Kallivis]

This subject gets me very irritated for several reasons so I don't want to stick around for very long and I don't want to get into detail. I will just drop the short-short version of what I ranted in the old "sexism" thread. (this won't be as short as it seems)

-I hate sexism. I am all for equal rights.

-The idea of this objectifying women is in itself objectifying women, which is the funniest thing about it. People make such a big deal about something people are obviously attracted to (even a game character). They like to censor the body, and make a huge issue out of it. This is what I find is truly sexist. It's like back when women weren't allowed to show their navels.

-Out of every single female I associate with and play this game/other games with, all of them eat up the skimpy armor. They love it. None of them feel it's sexist. In fact, I hear more complaints from males than I do females. Males who want to act like some sort of hero for female equality by ranting about skimpy armor in a god damn game.

-Sex sells. It makes money. This is a business. From the beginning of time with Square there have been perverted things throughout FF, such as the tentacle monsters which would only target females in the early games.

-The issue should not be "make gear less skimpy", if you want equality make equally sexy gear for males. Oh wait, it already exists. End of discussion.