Where is FFXIV headed in terms of sexism?

[Kibo]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think I saw the option to change muscle definition in the preview for character creation. Your overall body shape would likely stay the same, but at least every male running around won't be a pile of muscles.

Indeed. But it's just 4 bump maps with different grades of muscle definition, aye. Doesn't really change the overall physique. It's a shame, but o welp. No biggie, I have other options. And maybe even Miqo'te male will tickle my fancy. God, I want that character creator benchmark already!

[Abriael]

Again this isn't a discussion just about gear and wearing or not wearing gear, it's about the entire attitude. Also, as stated, I have no problem with having the option. By the sounds of it, vanity slots should alleviate most of this issue

What entire attitude? The attitude of having a developer crack a joke while answering a question to lighten the mood?

Not sure what part of the development industry you followed so far, but I tend to remember from my (fairly substantial) experience that being lighthearted is considered a good thing when talking to the fanbase. And if you think something like this is serious, 90% of the gaming industry (including several females that TOTALLY use their femininity to their advantage) will make you pull your hair out.

If you have no problem with having the option, then I'm not sure where the OP wall'o'text came from, considering that it's very clear, from everything we saw so far, that skimpy clothing is just an option, for both genders.

By the way, yes, there are ladies working on the game. While i'm not sure of their numbers.

[Ryuko]

Indeed. But it's just 4 bump maps with different grades of muscle definition, aye. Doesn't really change the overall physique. It's a shame, but o welp. No biggie, I have other options. And maybe even Miqo'te male will tickle my fancy. God, I want that character creator benchmark already!

I know! I'm hoping male miqo'tes will seem a bit more appealing to male players who don't want or identify with the appearance of crazy muscles. I mean, cats are supposed to be sleek and agile, after all.

[Lemmiwinks]

Seriously?... its a game... if you are uncomfortable with it don't play it... its as simple as that. The rest of us will continue to enjoy playing, no matter what we are (or are not) clothed in.

[Laiferr]

What entire attitude? The attitude of having a developer crack a joke while answering a question to lighten the mood?

Not sure what part of the development industry you followed so far, but I tend to remember from my (fairly substantial) experience that being lighthearted is considered a good thing when talking to the fanbase. And if you think something like this is serious, 90% of the gaming industry (including several females that TOTALLY use their femininity to their advantage) will make you pull your hair out.

If you have no problem with having the option, then I'm not sure where the OP wall'o'text came from, considering that it's very clear, from everything we saw so far, that skimpy clothing is just an option, for both genders.

By the way, yes, there are ladies working on the game. While i'm not sure of their numbers.

I can appreciate maybe it's funny for you, it's not very funny for me, but obviously there are reasons for that I've already outlined on the last page. I don't think saying 'oh well the gaming industry is like that' makes it ok. Should we just not be concerned by things because a lot of people happen to think they're ok? I am concerned by the male dominance in the gaming industry, and I don't think it's ok. That's off on a tangent a bit, though. The OP outlines where my concern (not problem) lies, and outlines some areas where it seems male avatars are not viewed in the same way as female/females seem to be becoming sexualised (and again, no, not just gear). As I already said I don't have a big issue with how things are right now, but a concern for how far it might go. Again, for the record, not a huge deal, just wondering if anyone else is getting a bit pensive over it.

[Thunderz]

people bringing real world thinking into video games

No thanks.

This is a fantasy world

[Ryuko]

Laiferr: I understand what you are getting at. To many, they see it as 'just a game', and on the surface... it is just a game. They don't see your claims as legitimate because it's a fantasy world and therefore not something that directly affects real life.

I know that what YOU are looking at is the underlying trend, and what sort of stereotypes it perpetuates, whether or not anyone has been directly hurt by it. People will agree or disagree on this point, either because they don't think it is perpetuating stereotypes or because they don't think it matters.

As others have pointed out, males are stereotyped just as much -- being forced to wear the big, thick muscles and wide, powerful shoulders. Lalas are the only exception, but they also look like little children, so... I am not really counting them in this discussion (as much as I love Lalas!).

If we are going to argue for equality, we need to argue for both sides. That is, we need to listen to and identify with the males who also feel like they are being excluded. It's not a 'one sided' thing.

[Abriael]

I can appreciate maybe it's funny for you, it's not very funny for me, but obviously there are reasons for that I've already outlined on the last page. I don't think saying 'oh well the gaming industry is like that' makes it ok. Should we just not be concerned by things because a lot of people happen to think they're ok? I am concerned by the male dominance in the gaming industry, and I don't think it's ok. That's off on a tangent a bit, though. The OP outlines where my concern (not problem) lies, and outlines some areas where it seems male avatars are not viewed in the same way as female/females seem to be becoming sexualised (and again, no, not just gear). As I already said I don't have a big issue with how things are right now, but a concern for how far it might go. Again, for the record, not a huge deal, just wondering if anyone else is getting a bit pensive over it.

For something that's not a huge deal, you sure wrote a huge post Don't get me wrong. Sexism in the gaming industry (or in every industry) IS a problem. But it's not here.

That extremely mild joke was in response to a direct question, and, as I said, it's nothing compared to what you'll see elsewhere. I've heard a ton of ladies do much, much worse themselves.

Mind you, the male dominance in the gaming industry comes mostly from the fact that mostly males try to get into it. I'm sure I'll unleash an hurricane on myself by saying this, but according to every bit of experience I gathered in fifteen years as a game writer, ladies that are determined to "make it" in basically every sector of the game industry normally manage to do so easier than males (mind you, this may be interpreted as sexism as well, depending on how you look at it). I'm not saying that they don't deserve it (far from it, as 99% of ladies I worked with or around have always been competent), so don't get your underwear in a bunch, but in this kind of field, being a lady most often helps more than it hurts.

But I digress...

[strallaalaa]

nothing wrong with bouncing breasts in video games. is funny cause most the people in this thread are also the ones that vote for aesthetics and easy game play, casual game play. and at the end of the day the only real answer to why they get there mmo's the way they want them is they are the majority.

well men are still majority players, the 30votes on a site about breasts, (where probably half the bloggers are women but way more then half don't even read forums) shouldn't truly be the reason for SE to add anything in a mmo. not saying your votes don't count, i'm saying lets be real that most dudes don't sit on a web site posting there thoughts all day long like it is done on this site.

not trying to come off sexist but video games should in the future become more and more revealing not less. some countries have nakedness in comercials, i'm sure the usa will loosen it's uptightness about nudity too one day, not lessen it. people mentioned religion but our first bibles had porno pages/pictures in between the bible pages as well. nothing wrong with the naked body. but i do get the dudes aren't as naked but again the majority that play probably are dudes that don't want to see shlonge or bare man ass.

in the end though i can care less about aesthetics in a mmo, i don't care bout same sex marriage either. what i do care about is that they would waist resources on things like this. add more content rather then trying to make the few happy that enjoy getting married to there real life bf or gf, (or rp) you might of doubled the vote cause you usually come in pairs but your still not the majority in video games.

if i come off sexist sorry but if you want to picket and organize on breasts in vid games there are some mmo that literally have nude breasts and 0 man dongs in it so we can start there by making them show man dongs, not remove the breasts. and again i really don't care bout the breasts in games either.

and people that harass people that are women in game should realize most are men any way lol. in ffxi my mule was rocking the summer 2piece half the year and i got people winking and saying things once in while. but i guess it's a bigger deal when it's a women behind the pc but i find it funny. guess there is something wrong with me? lol. either way i'm not a women so i can't say it's not a big deal cause in real life some probably feel butthurt from a lot of people that are really sexist so sorry for that and sorry for the men that think they are above you. that is not what i'm trying to say in this thread at all but i don't agree with the complaining.

[Ryuko]

Mind you, the male dominance in the gaming industry comes mostly from the fact that mostly males try to get into it.

I'll agree on this point, but I'm not touching what you said after that with a ten foot pole.

When I was considering doing video game art design, I went for an open house. I was literally the only female there. THE ONLY FEMALE THERE. Granted, this was seven years ago when I was first applying to colleges. Trends could be steadily changing.