Where is FFXIV headed in terms of sexism?

[Laiferr]

I just want to put this discussion out there and see how the majority of the playerbase feel on this issue.

- Are you concerned about female objectification?
- Are you concerned with how far the FFXIV team will go with sexism?
- Does it in any way effect your enjoyment of the game?
- Has it ever effected how you have been treated as a female avatar?

[Please note: This is NOT a thread hating on sexy gear. If both genders get the choice of equally sexy identical gear, that is good. This is a thread about EQUALITY, CHOICE and the ATTITUDE of the development team. Please take the time to read and comprehend the following post before responding. As of page 19 I have stopped replying to this thread (sorry I won't be answering more questions).]

I'm bringing this up now as it was a sore disappointment to me that one of the first questions brought up in the last letter from the producer was to do with breast physics. This puzzled me, since the only thread I can find on the topic has a paltry 30 likes, while the opposition managed 25 likes. Clearly this isn't something the majority of the English-speaking player base are interested in. I can only make 2 other assumptions here; it's the non-English-speaking playerbase that want features like this, OR, it's the development team.

We started to see increasing amounts of 'skimpy' gear as the game went on; purportedly due to player demand. Although it's not to my tastes, I don't mind it that much, since most skimpy gear is stat-wise, useless, and you can choose not to wear it. It's usually just silly event gear, for example, swimwear. Also, most usually the males get the same treatment; for example, I distinctly remember one of our LS members pouting about how 'silly', 'revealing' and 'tight' the male version was, refusing to put it on, and as a female avatar in turn, this helped me feel more justified in expressing the same feelings over the female version, as my fellow male players could relate to this feeling. I felt we were, at least, treated equally.

It has, however, started to bother me when the skimpy gear has useful stats, or when the male alternative is clearly more covered up than the female version. Most notably with the coatee. It had stats which made it good equipment for crafting (even though it absolutely is not what one would wear while sawing) and, while the male version echoes a dandy butler of sorts, the female dons a crotch-length miniskirt and bustier that barely covers the nipples. It honestly makes me uncomfortable to look at. However, I brushed it off as a one-time thing, and maybe me being a little prudish.

But recent attitudes from the development team have started to concern me. For example, when displaying new gear, choosing to show it on a Miqo'te in a pose which shows her bent over suggestively and smiling (I think this is /pose). Then to go as far as to say some people on the dev team have certain 'inclinations' as if it's a funny joke. On the last live letter, we saw some print outs of characters displaying, I think, new hairstyles; one showed a female avatar in a skimpy outfit. Yoshi-P commented on this, saying he had asked for an extra image at the last minute and 'he doesn't know why' they made it a 'sexy' one, again as if it was a little funny. It seems to me the dev team are very much encouraging the objectification of females, actively joking about and enjoying it, however mildly.

I have, in turn, noticed that my avatar gets objectified. As a long-time XI player, I would rarely feel I was being harassed for my female avatar. I felt we were all respected, and respectful. In XIV I have noticed harassment happen to both myself and my fellow female-avatar players. Maybe it's just the people I met in-game? Or maybe the behaviour of the dev team is something that trickles down. Maybe the way NPCs behave/talk in game, maybe the way they program our characters to pose, or maybe the gear they provide us, makes certain people feel a legitimacy in harassing a female avatar. When the option isn't provided/encouraged, there is not an avenue for the sexism to emerge (a la XI).

I'm not acting like this is an end of the world issue, and I'm by no means saying the display of the female body is something to be reviled. I am, however, wanting to know if anyone feels a similar concern. I have always enjoyed Final Fantasy as it is a series which rarely makes women out to be 'bimbos' or to have a focus on things such as sexy posing, skimpy gear or breast physics. I can only think of X-2 which placed more of an emphasis on this, and to a largely negative reaction.

I would finally like to say, since it was a point brought up in other threads regarding sexism/skimpy gear - 'it's just a game'. If Square Enix are going to make a point of bringing the real-world into issues such as same-sex marriage, I'm sure they're open to the idea that sexism is a serious real world issue, and thus should also be considered in the same manner.

Thank you for your time, I look forward to your thoughts.

This is also a complete aside; does anyone know if there are any females on the development team, or even the entire FFXIV team? Just curious.

[jwang]

The solution to this problem: EVERYTHING IS SUBLIGAR. Thus, everyone is exposed to pretty much the same degree, and therefore equal. Guys get cheesecake, gals get beefcake.

[Delsus]

I know it's so unfair... Why can't I wear a posing pouch with DL stats.

[Edy]

It would be interesting to know the statistics on the player base in terms of male/female players ages etc - those sort of demographics. I think that some of your concerns are justified and from a objectification aspect, I agree that the objectification of women is a societal problem in real life but our avatars (of all races) if anything are just that, objects. I can see in your post that you are looking beyond the game, I guess in the grand scheme of things the characters wearing skimpy skirts in this game is on whole world away from some of the things available on the internet, fantasy or not.

[Laiferr]

The solution to this problem: EVERYTHING IS SUBLIGAR. Thus, everyone is exposed to pretty much the same degree, and therefore equal. Guys get cheesecake, gals get beefcake.

Ha! I wouldn't mind that, at least we'd all be getting the same treatment! 'Subligar-Fantasy XIV'

It would be interesting to know the statistics on the player base in terms of male/female players ages etc - those sort of demographics. I think that some of your concerns are justified and from a objectification aspect, I agree that the objectification of women is a societal problem in real life but our avatars (of all races) if anything are just that, objects. I can see in your post that you are looking beyond the game, I guess in the grand scheme of things the characters wearing skimpy skirts in this game is one whole world away from some of the things available on the internet, fantasy or not.

I'd be really interested in knowing this, too. I think on a personal level, I can accept it probably bothers me more than most. As far as 'the other things you can find on the internet' - if you're alluding to porn/sexual material, that's not my issue. I don't have an issue with the content being appropriate to the purpose. I don't play an online game to see 'sexy' material.

[Hypnotic13371337]

i honestly dont get the whole "sexism in video games" thing

dont get me wrong, im not for sexism in real life, but come on, this is someones fantasy world.

so what if the Miqo'te's are oversexualized? what if that is the norm for this games society? (ever see any NPC in uldah complain about how the Miqo'te's acted at the miners guild?)

plus there is always the option of "if you dont like it, dont pick that race"

also about the "same sex marrige" thing

if male players can be female characters and female players can be male characters, does it matter anyway?

[Teuciont]

Really.
/10char

[Kraggy]

FF is a series of games produced in the country that gives us 'anime', one of the key ingredients being females who look barely of age in costumes intended to make young teen males get a tad excited.

I don't like it much, but this is the culture in which SE operates .. and God knows, it infects western games just as much, look at Rift to name but one, where females wearing plate armour show acres of bare belly and upper thighs .. and I assume they do it because they know a large part of their target market want it.

It ain't going to change.

[nibelunc]

Thank you, good thread.
I am asking myself if either the most of the players are 13 yr male or are they just old fart pervs. Maybe I am too old with my 22 years but why do we need oversized tits and micro-skirts in a Final Fantasy game and why are people so embarrassing with?

[Laiferr]

i honestly dont get the whole "sexism in video games" thing

dont get me wrong, im not for sexism in real life, but come on, this is someones fantasy world.

so what if the Miqo'te's are oversexualized? what if that is the norm for this games society? (ever see any NPC in uldah complain about how the Miqo'te's acted at the miners guild?)

plus there is always the option of "if you dont like it, dont pick that race"

also about the "same sex marrige" thing

if male players can be female characters and female players can be male characters, does it matter anyway?

I basically want to know if this is a fantasy world which aims to exclude female players. If I know I am entering a world in which I will be harassed, I don't want to play. I can't see it going quite this far - like my appalling experiences on PlayStation Home - but I do have a general unease and disappointment with it.

I don't feel I should have to hide behind a male avatar just so people don't harass me, and so I'm not a part of the dev teams 'objectification'.

FF is a series of games produced in the country that gives us 'anime', one of the key ingredients being females who look barely of age in costumes intended to make young teen males get a tad excited.

I don't like it much, but this is the culture in which SE operates .. and God knows, it infects western games just as much, look at Rift to name but one, where females wearing plate armour show acres of bare belly and upper thighs .. and I assume they do it because they know a large part of their target market want it.

It ain't going to change.

I think this is the sad reality of it. As I said, it's sad for me because XI was actually not in this vein. I think it did a better job of appealing to and accepting female players/avatars. I can accept XIV is not XI, and perhaps I was expecting something more progressive which will not come to be.