DOH Character Separation

[Athaya]

If there is a similar post please forgive me. We all are patiently waiting for the battle realated changes to start happening. I've recently just read a post on some possible changes about to happen to the crafting system as well. I really hope the underlying problem that is plaguing this game is not just being addressed on the DoW/DoM side of the game but on the DoH side of the game as well. That being the lack of class uniqueness. You may say that each DoH class is unique and you would be right, but the problem goes deeper than that. Currently there is no limit to how many classes you can rank to 50. Which may not really be a problem when the level cap breaks. I'm all for having multiple crafts ranked up understanding how certain synths require multiple skills (It's a great system) At some point though we have got to be able to specialize. Example: in FFXI you could only have one craft @ 100 the rest at 60, this system would work fine in FFXIV. That would provide some separation between dedicated crafters. Other ways of separation, are tools that are currently in the game now but are not being properly utilized in my opinion. These tools are the tomes you get through guild mark aquisition. Currently these tomes help you syth items earlier and easier, but i believe it should be taken a step further. Certain items should not be able to be made without the aquisition of the related tome(s). This should also apply to HQ items, it should not even be posible to HQ something without the applicable tome. And please add some rank/class restrictions on gear, not just optimal class/rnk system. Serious penalties need to be imposed on characters not wearing gear within the required rank.(the easy fix of course is to rnk/class cap each piece of gear like in FFXI) As it is the market is diluted with the popular pieces of gear and equipment because people are not forced to wear stuff within their rank or even class range. A whole host of problems have arisen because of the current system. Separation is key for the long-term so we dont have everyone making everything.

[origamikitsune]

Indeed, indications from the information on the Materia System are that all of the base mats will be DoH specific, or close to it, so that the core of the economy will be driven supplier side by DoH. Also seems that these materials are what crafters will use to take a "normal" piece of cross-class gear and make it class specific. That's the impression I got.

[Physic]

I dont think specialization is a good idea, if someone wants multiple crafts high, i see no reason they should be unable to.

[Athaya]

I dont think specialization is a good idea, if someone wants multiple crafts high, i see no reason they should be unable to.

That's a typical response and one of the current problems with the game right now. Let's be able to do anything and everything with no restrictions! -- wow let's all wear plate armor on our archers and mages -- let's combine every skill with every class -- why don't we all pick the same character models why we are at it?.... I was trying to make a case for the crafting side of things but this problem is a part of the whole game. By having no restrictions does not necessarily mean something good will come from it.

[Amineri]

I rather like that FFXIV has the freedom from the rather oppressive (and somewhat arbitrary) restrictions that seem prevalent in other MMOs. The freedom to rank any class and wear any gear is, for me, a refreshing change.

In terms of gear, I like the system that allows the freedom to let a character wear any gear freely (well, until "required" gear is added), but adds consequences that lead different classes to have tendencies to have similar looks. Adding a little bit of required gear is a good thing, but hopefully this will be the exception rather than the rule.

However, in terms of classes, there is very little reason to specialize or differentiate your character from any other. Hopefully the job system (which I dearly hope also will extend to DoH/L) will add some of this.

One concept that I liked I first saw in Ryzom (although likely it has been used other places as well). The idea is, at higher ranks, increasing specialization must occur.

For FFXIV, an example of this could be: In woodworking, currently, once woodworking rank is at 50, any item, be it a bow, a conjurer crook or wand, or a pair of wooden shoes ... all items can be made equally well. After rank 50, instead of simply extending the woodworking class, require advanced woodworking classes. One would make bows, one would make conjurer weapons, etc. Perhaps this could be from rank 50 to 80, or something, and then past rank 80 further specialization could take place.

This system still is free from arbitrary restrictions (e.g. "you can't learn this because you already learned that"), but the branching means that it would be very difficult to become skilled at making EVERYTHING.

[Vesper]

That's a typical response and one of the current problems with the game right now. Let's be able to do anything and everything with no restrictions! -- wow let's all wear plate armor on our archers and mages -- let's combine every skill with every class -- why don't we all pick the same character models why we are at it?.... I was trying to make a case for the crafting side of things but this problem is a part of the whole game. By having no restrictions does not necessarily mean something good will come from it.

The core of this game is built around the ability to rank up any job, to any rank you want. We knew that going in, that should not change. Specializations or job trees within the class are one thing, but limiting crafts to one at cap and other at a fraction is something that would make me wave goodbye. I play this game because of the freedom it allows.

[Athaya]

One of the last points I touched on were the the problems that have arisen because of not having some of these "arbitrary" restrictions. Being a crafter from day one I've been fortunate to be at the forefront of the economic prosperity on my server, that being said i've seen and talked to many up and coming crafters who can't make any gil making and selling stuff at their lower rank simply because not many people buy lower ranked gear because they do not have too. Now this works great for me and others who are ahead, but it's terrible for the overall system. Furthermore, where is the sense of accomplishment? All right I'm rank 10 let me equip that Calvary chain mail armor I just bought for 20k, because...I can? I'm not trying to play this game for a week, or a month. Why have armor or weapons at all if they really don't mean anything. I'm not saying take away some of the nice freedoms we have in this game by any means. I love this game, and I just want to see it get better.

[Mordellwen]

Being one of those crafters who has a difficult time making money i can agree. If SE wants to let every class wear calvary hauby then thats fine, but why let you wear it lvl 1? I like the freedom in this game alot but i believe there needs to be certrain lvls of restraint within the classes and armory system. When you let all abilities be used over all battle jobs you loose all class specificity. everyone can cast cure and cast offensive spells. you got gladiator casting stygian spikes 2??? totally wrong in my opinion and such a 180 from what final fantasy has been. I do enjoy this game and love playing it. yet lets remember it is an rpg a role playing game.

[KorPoni]

Instead of limiting the class level/equipment, how about more penalties instead, such as an accuracy, success, and evasion penalty because you're wearing armor not meant for your current class?

As for optimum rank, maybe just do like ffxi and cut the gear's effectiveness to match your rank (going off of level sync), but maybe another cut to show the gear is being misused, like even lower stats, faster damage, removing extra buffs, etc.

[Leknaat]

I'd be very upset if they decided to backpedal and say 'sorry you can only level 1 craft!'

I would prefer that they limit the gear by rank (no more than +5 or +10?) and/or job. I actually don't go beyond +10 my current rank for the sake of being able to repair my own schizz. I also wear/carry the proper type of gear even though it's a hassle.