A Socio-Cultural Analysis of Garlean Genocide *spoilers*

[Fatestorm]

Great analysis. A note:

Garlemald also seems to have dropped religion. The Legati are pretty clear that the gods people worship ignore them, and that they are strongly against eikons, which is a derogatory term for the primals insinuating that they are false gods and just monsters. Essentially, the gods are dead to them.

This is true, but there is also the possibility that the Garleans have developed some sort of monotheism. Calling the Twelve dead or false gods, and the primals mere eikons ('images'; their worship would thus be eido-latreia, 'image-worship', 'idolatry') would be consistent with a nation who believes that it has discovered the one true God.

However, the lyrics to "Rise of the White Raven" suggest that Garlemald really is atheist:

Res evertuntur repente
Ad unum omnes sunt mortui dei
Machinae regnabunt in caelo
Ratio regnabit in terra

All things are suddenly overturned
All gods, to the very last, have passed away
Technology will reign in heaven
Reason will reign on earth.

This passage makes it pretty clear that Garlemald is atheist, probably going through something like an "Age of Enlightenment" which marks an extreme faith in science, progress, human reason, and technology on the one hand and a heavy reaction against religion and tradition on the other.

It is not 100% cut-and-dried. The song seems to be sung from the perspective of a generic Garlean soldier (not, for example, Darnus himself, because he is praised in the song in the third person). But this leads to some confusion. Darnus is an extremist, passionately devoted to the Meteor Project far beyond what the rest of the Empire thought reasonable (cf Gaius' reactions throughout the quest), and indeed Darnus starts to 'worship' Dalamud, pray to it, invoke it lovingly, etc. This is certainly religious devotion. And, in the more recent lore updates, we have been told that the VIIth Legion has occupied the Carteneau Flats, in something like a fanatic devotion to their Legatus, believing him to have ascended to godhood or something like that. While a fanatical devotion to a legatus would be utterly typical of, say, Roman legions, a 'religious' devotion to him seems to contradict the Enlightenment atheistic feel of the lyrics I just quoted.

It's a riddle! Before the events with the reformation of the Grand Companies, I actually thought that Dalamud was Garlemald's own "primal"--obviously I was wrong. My own pet theory now is that Dalamud is a prison device created by the ancient Allagan Empire to imprison Bahamut... but I suppose time will tell!

[Azurymber]

Great analysis. A note:



This is true, but there is also the possibility that the Garleans have developed some sort of monotheism. Calling the Twelve dead or false gods, and the primals mere eikons ('images'; their worship would thus be eido-latreia, 'image-worship', 'idolatry') would be consistent with a nation who believes that it has discovered the one true God.

However, the lyrics to "Rise of the White Raven" suggest that Garlemald really is atheist:

Res evertuntur repente
Ad unum omnes sunt mortui dei
Machinae regnabunt in caelo
Ratio regnabit in terra

All things are suddenly overturned
All gods, to the very last, have passed away
Technology will reign in heaven
Reason will reign on earth.

This passage makes it pretty clear that Garlemald is atheist, probably going through something like an "Age of Enlightenment" which marks an extreme faith in science, progress, human reason, and technology on the one hand and a heavy reaction against religion and tradition on the other.

It is not 100% cut-and-dried. The song seems to be sung from the perspective of a generic Garlean soldier (not, for example, Darnus himself, because he is praised in the song in the third person). But this leads to some confusion. Darnus is an extremist, passionately devoted to the Meteor Project far beyond what the rest of the Empire thought reasonable (cf Gaius' reactions throughout the quest), and indeed Darnus starts to 'worship' Dalamud, pray to it, invoke it lovingly, etc. This is certainly religious devotion. And, in the more recent lore updates, we have been told that the VIIth Legion has occupied the Carteneau Flats, in something like a fanatic devotion to their Legatus, believing him to have ascended to godhood or something like that. While a fanatical devotion to a legatus would be utterly typical of, say, Roman legions, a 'religious' devotion to him seems to contradict the Enlightenment atheistic feel of the lyrics I just quoted.

It's a riddle! Before the events with the reformation of the Grand Companies, I actually thought that Dalamud was Garlemald's own "primal"--obviously I was wrong. My own pet theory now is that Dalamud is a prison device created by the ancient Allagan Empire to imprison Bahamut... but I suppose time will tell!

I agree with it all
only thing I want to point out is that it is mentioned many times that Dalamud is -not- a god or not a being, but a man made object. Ppl in eorzea only call it by a name related to a god because they probably aren't aware the Allag empire even existed, or that it was even more technologically advanced than the Garleans are.

So essentially he is worshiping power, or a machine.
Or if the devs are poetic, it's a representation of what happens when you worship technology to the extreme.

Mind you the prison thing sounds pretty cool

[Punainen]

Mmm, I disagree and don't think that's what SE was going for. Religion does not equate to inherent racism. Japan itself is a highly religious country, do you view Japan as inherently racist? They aren't. Eorzea was at odds with itself for a while, but were able to put aside their differences and live in peace without forgoing their religious views.

I think the thing about Garlemald being atheist and hating Eorzea's gods is true, but I don't think they're merely making a 'preemptive' attack. I think the emperor is insane and power hungry and wants world domination.

[Xmbei]

Mmm, I disagree and don't think that's what SE was going for. Religion does not equate to inherent racism. Japan itself is a highly religious country, do you view Japan as inherently racist? They aren't. Eorzea was at odds with itself for a while, but were able to put aside their differences and live in peace without forgoing their religious views.

I think the thing about Garlemald being atheist and hating Eorzea's gods is true, but I don't think they're merely making a 'preemptive' attack. I think the emperor is insane and power hungry and wants world domination.

Ermmm, not to contridict you but from my time in Japan and things I have learned, in a religion class and Japanese Culture class, here in Japan. Japanese are only religious on holidays they don't practice highly. They also don't go preaching religiously on anything. Unless of course they are Jovah's Witnesses... and yes I have had old Japanese Women come to my door and try to sell me Jesus... It's quite interesting... lol. Anyways, I don't think they are highly religious.

[Azurymber]

Mmm, I disagree and don't think that's what SE was going for. Religion does not equate to inherent racism. Japan itself is a highly religious country, do you view Japan as inherently racist? They aren't. Eorzea was at odds with itself for a while, but were able to put aside their differences and live in peace without forgoing their religious views.

I think the thing about Garlemald being atheist and hating Eorzea's gods is true, but I don't think they're merely making a 'preemptive' attack. I think the emperor is insane and power hungry and wants world domination.

I think you gravely misinterpreted what I was arguing.
I don't see anywhere in my argument where I said that being religious = racist
HOWEVER, Gridania has -tons- of religious discrimination (if you aren't of the twelveswood you are an outsider and should leave) And honestly thats not too different from the attitude of many older Japanese who are generally anti-gaijin (against foreigners), to the point where gaijin is considered politically incorrect now. There has been recent controversy about this in the media over American military bases I believe.

And Ishgard is a highly discriminatory nation essentially killing anyone who would even consider talking to the dragons.

Further, if the emperor just wanted to conquer the world he wouldn't eradicate Eorzea, he would just invade it or leave it. Eradicating it doesn't benefit anyone, unless it's a serious threat and thus a preemptive strike.

[Kallera]

Great analysis. A note:



This is true, but there is also the possibility that the Garleans have developed some sort of monotheism. Calling the Twelve dead or false gods, and the primals mere eikons ('images'; their worship would thus be eido-latreia, 'image-worship', 'idolatry') would be consistent with a nation who believes that it has discovered the one true God.

However, the lyrics to "Rise of the White Raven" suggest that Garlemald really is atheist:

Res evertuntur repente
Ad unum omnes sunt mortui dei
Machinae regnabunt in caelo
Ratio regnabit in terra

All things are suddenly overturned
All gods, to the very last, have passed away
Technology will reign in heaven
Reason will reign on earth.

This passage makes it pretty clear that Garlemald is atheist, probably going through something like an "Age of Enlightenment" which marks an extreme faith in science, progress, human reason, and technology on the one hand and a heavy reaction against religion and tradition on the other.

It is not 100% cut-and-dried. The song seems to be sung from the perspective of a generic Garlean soldier (not, for example, Darnus himself, because he is praised in the song in the third person). But this leads to some confusion. Darnus is an extremist, passionately devoted to the Meteor Project far beyond what the rest of the Empire thought reasonable (cf Gaius' reactions throughout the quest), and indeed Darnus starts to 'worship' Dalamud, pray to it, invoke it lovingly, etc. This is certainly religious devotion. And, in the more recent lore updates, we have been told that the VIIth Legion has occupied the Carteneau Flats, in something like a fanatic devotion to their Legatus, believing him to have ascended to godhood or something like that. While a fanatical devotion to a legatus would be utterly typical of, say, Roman legions, a 'religious' devotion to him seems to contradict the Enlightenment atheistic feel of the lyrics I just quoted.

It's a riddle! Before the events with the reformation of the Grand Companies, I actually thought that Dalamud was Garlemald's own "primal"--obviously I was wrong. My own pet theory now is that Dalamud is a prison device created by the ancient Allagan Empire to imprison Bahamut... but I suppose time will tell!

It could be that Van Darnus's fanaticism with the Meteor project, along with whatever prowess he has as a military leader, has created a 'cult of personality' with his legion, causing them to be fanatically loyal to him and see his success as some uneathly greatness.

As far as racism....I'm not sure if that's completely the case. Their army is conscripted of various soldiers from the races. If their society is like the Romans, perhaps they have a similar set of services for Garlean citizenship.

[kimoi]

It is indeed the primals that the Empire detests. This is most likely the reason why the Emperor has no problem with using Meteo to wipe out Eorzea. The lore itself states this hatred:

Galvus then instituted an imperial regime to govern their new territories, conferring upon himself the title of "Emperor." The eastern nations were the first to feel the newborn empire's mighty fist. It was during this campaign that the emperor witnessed firsthand the destruction wrought by the primals - an experience that led to an imperial mandate for their annihilation.

[Bowen]

Ermmm, not to contridict you but from my time in Japan and things I have learned, in a religion class and Japanese Culture class, here in Japan. Japanese are only religious on holidays they don't practice highly. They also don't go preaching religiously on anything. Unless of course they are Jehovah's Witnesses... and yes I have had old Japanese Women come to my door and try to sell me Jesus... It's quite interesting... lol. Anyways, I don't think they are highly religious.

I'm a Jehovah's Witness, and I can sort of confirm what you're saying from what I've been told from a friend of mine who lived in Japan as a Witness. Religion isn't really a big deal for most people there, from what I've been told.

On topic:
10/10 Would read again. Garlemald is a great mystery at the moment, and I'd love to be able to see their nation sometime in 2.0.

[Duuude007]

You should explain their rise in technocracy attributed to their discovery of Allaghan relics

[A_Hortensia]

This the best thread, and I don't mean to derail it but...

My own pet theory now is that Dalamud is a prison device created by the ancient Allagan Empire to imprison Bahamut... but I suppose time will tell!

The flavor text for the lunar curtain status effect is..:
Reduces damage from supreme spells derived from Dalamud by half.
The spell being Megaflare. Megaflare, being Bahamut's attack.

This has been my hunch since my first crack at To Kill a Raven.
Once I read this status's flavor text during The Raven, Nevermore...
I'm a believer.

(And we're fighting Dragons in Dungeons now in ARR trailers? After the King may have returned..?)



(Hmm.)