SE Please implement a Chonoscroll/PLEX system in FFXIV: ARR

[Mamakat]

I think this could make the RMT problem worse. All they do is farm gil to sell for RL money, and this system would give them the opportunity to play for free at the same time.

SE has been at war with RMT for years, why would they want to introduce anything that could help them? Or to turn their own player base into (reverse) RMT? That would be pretty hypocritical.

Also, what do you do when your subscription runs out, and there is no scroll on AH to buy? I don't think there will be enough people willing to pay RL money for gil to keep up with the people who would rather just pay gil for their subscription.

They could always make the pass bought in game from an NPC for a crazy ammount of gil, so they could set the price... but gil doesn't pay the bills.

And finally, as we've seen time and time again: people will always find a way to exploit. So I think it's best if we just leave it alone.

[Abriael]

I think this could make the RMT problem worse. All they do is farm gil to sell for RL money, and this system would give them the opportunity to play for free at the same time.

It doesn't help them because they don't need it. All they need to do (and what they currently do) is to use credit card fraud or to steal accounts to have infinite supply of accounts.

Also, what do you do when your subscription runs out, and there is no scroll on AH to buy? I don't think there will be enough people willing to pay RL money for gil to keep up with the people who would rather just pay gil for their subscription.

You may not think it, but experience proves you wrong. In both EVE and TERA there's never shortage of offer to match the demand.

And finally, as we've seen time and time again: people will always find a way to exploit stuff like this. So I think it's best if we just leave it alone.

Again, an assumption born from lack of knowledge. In other games they aren't abused (and if there's a game in which the playerbase WILL abuse any system that gives them a chance to, that's EVE), because the system is ironclad, and you can't turn the items back into real money.

There's no reason to believe that the final fantasy XIV audience will manage where the EVE playerbase didn't in five years.

Gil might not be introduced but you're buying an item which you can sell making your player get more gil. Buy more items, sell, make gil. It will still have the same effect. Just like you got crystals, sold to npc, made more gil.

Economy doesn't work like that. With this system while a person's buying power increase, anoter's buying power is reduced, so the total buying power remains the same.

By selling to NPCs you *create* money. Devaluing money itself in the process. With this system there's absolutely no money created -> No effect on the economy.



To put it down simply, and to be bluntly honest, whoever says that this system wouldn't work here because the final fantasy audience is somehow more exploit-ready than others either never played other MMORPGs or he's simply talking without the slightest knowledge of the market.

EVE online is the largest den of scum and villany in the galaxy. Final fantasy (XI or XIV) players are like harmless kids (exploiting potential-wise) compared to a large portion of the EVE online playerbase.

The fact that the PLEX system resisted exploit in that game is all the demonstration we need that, with the proper failsafes, it's a very safe system to use.

There's a lot to be learned by observing other games. Some people around here should learn that lesson. Luckily SE seems to have learned it already with the advent of Yoshida.

[Mamakat]

All they need to do (and what they currently do) is to use credit card fraud or to steal accounts to have infinite supply of accounts.

an assumption born from lack of knowledge.

lol

Again, you say in those games they didn't exploit. Don't underestimate some of the XI/XIV community.

So answer me this, which one are YOU? Are you the one buying the scroll to sell, or the one buying the scroll to use to play for free? And if the latter, how much would you be willing to pay with gil?

[Abriael]

lol

Again, you say in those games they didn't exploit. Don't underestimate some of the XI/XIV community.

I'm afraid you largely overestimate them.

EVE Online is a truly player-driven economy where exploit is part of the sandbox system and where people infiltrate corporations for years in order to spy, steal their assets or destroy them.

The fact that the PLEX system isn't exploited in that kind of environment is plenty insurance that it could be safely used here.

I'm sorry (and I don't mean it as a positive thing anyway, it's one of the reasons why I hate part of the EVE community), but the FF playerbase is made of harmless infants in comparison, exploit potential-wise.

We don't have Goonswarm here, thank goodness. If a large number of them were to move here for some reason, they'd own the economy in a month.

So answer me this, which one are YOU? Are you the one buying the scroll to sell, or the one buying the scroll to use to play for free? And if the latter, how much would you be willing to pay with gil?

I'm neither. I normally pay my monthly fee and don't like spending real money on virtual items. I guess would possibly use the system to pay my account if my monetary situation were to get tight or if I had too many games to pay for with cash.

Making a comparison with TERA's prices, I'd probably be willing to spend 2-5 million gil (or 200k-500k considering the slashing by ten in ARR) for a month, but that depends a lot on offer/demand and my situation. Hard to determine how much I would spend when I'm not in need to do it yet.

Which one am I? I'm the one that would like to see SE put a spike in the wheel of RMT AND one that wants this game to be successful, knowing for a fact that a system like this would help the game retain more accounts from people on the fence if to resub or not (Because they don't play as much or because they play other games as well). As I said before it's also a lot easier to catch back the attention of players that retained their account in its active status.

This system removes a barrier between people and keeping their account active, increasing subscriber retention and giving SE more tools to show their users the evolution of the game.

I know very well (by experience and education) that the more options people have to give you money, the more likely it is that they will. More money for SE means a better/bigger game for me, and for everyone playing it. And that's the primary reason why i'm suggesting this system.

[AhmeraMae]

If the system is implemented and monitored correctly there won't be any way of exploiting it.

As Abriael stated earlier:

EVE Online is a truly player-driven economy where exploit is part of the sandbox system and where people infiltrate corporations for years in order to spy, steal their assets or destroy them.

The fact that the PLEX system isn't exploited in that kind of environment is plenty insurance that it could be safely used here.

I'm sorry (and I don't mean it as a positive thing anyway, it's one of the reasons why I hate part of the EVE community), but the FF playerbase is made of harmless infants in comparison, exploit potential-wise.

We don't have Goonswarm here, thank goodness. If a large number of them were to move here for some reason, they'd own the economy in a month.

They were, and still are, unable to find a way to exploit this system. If they can't find a way, the FFXI/XIV-playerbase won't be able to find one, aswell. You may not like the idea of Abriael, but he sure knows what he is talking about.

I spent my 2,5 years in EvE with Pandemic Legion, well known pioneers in the field of exploitation, and i dislike the game for the same reason he does: The average EvE-player's mindset is destructive and agressive.

[GodseijuroHiko]

lol

Again, you say in those games they didn't exploit. Don't underestimate some of the XI/XIV community.

So answer me this, which one are YOU? Are you the one buying the scroll to sell, or the one buying the scroll to use to play for free? And if the latter, how much would you be willing to pay with gil?

Attacking him personally will do nothing to help your apparent ignorance. He, like myself, would probably fall into the neither. In fact, we are the only ones who wouldn't directly benefit from this. Well, I would love more subscriptions for FFXIV, so its a plus for me I guess.

[Mamakat]

Attacking him personally will do nothing to help your apparent ignorance.

Please explain to me how I have attacked him personally. Especially since this, your previous post, and his replies to me have insulted my intelligence and are the ones that seem to be attacking me. Just because I don't agree with it doesn't mean I don't UNDERSTAND it.

[GodseijuroHiko]

Please explain to me how I have attacked him personally. Especially since this, your previous post, and his replies to me have insulted my intelligence and are the ones that seem to be attacking me. Just because I don't agree with it doesn't mean I don't UNDERSTAND it.

I'm fairly intelligent when it comes to classes relying on reading/writing and comprehending concepts. I'm mediocre at understanding math. You will never see me on a forum arguing mathematics. Not my forte. You made assumptions on a system you still don't yet fully understand. I'm not going to argue with you on that since people who do understand can see your comments and decide for themselves. You ignore the entire thread to ask him if he's going to be a gill buyer or support the gil buyer buy purchasing his scroll. It doesn't even add to the discussion. You just wanted to put him on the spot. Ask yourself, how does it bring anything of value to what we're talking about here. If you feel your intelligence is threatened, it's all on you. You lack understanding of the plex system while also forgetting that RMT already do exist. What can we do to thwart them? If you can stick to that without being hurt by someone telling you to learn how the system works, I'm sorry. See axemtitanium's latest post on how it works.

Saying "No to all sorts of RMT" is naive. RMT will exist. Let's accept that and move forward. The next step should be "How do we screw them over?" This system clearly does that. Yet we are all content to just live with the RMT we do have as long as it remains "illegal". That never stopped anyone from buying gil. How can I assume that? RMT exist.

[AhmeraMae]

I think this could make the RMT problem worse. All they do is farm gil to sell for RL money, and this system would give them the opportunity to play for free at the same time.

SE has been at war with RMT for years, why would they want to introduce anything that could help them? Or to turn their own player base into (reverse) RMT? That would be pretty hypocritical.

This system requires SE to be more strict and efficient about RMT. CCP (EvE dev) has eliminated almost all RMT simply by introducing PLEX, making game mechanics unappealing for RMT and cloasely watching the flow of currency. This idea is not meant to be THE cure for RMT, it's a way of taking power from them.

Also, what do you do when your subscription runs out, and there is no scroll on AH to buy? I don't think there will be enough people willing to pay RL money for gil to keep up with the people who would rather just pay gil for their subscription.

Since the introduction of PLEX in EvE there wasn't single day without them being seeded on the market. Even if there are none available for the moment: Just buy a GTC from SE. It's ONE way of paying and they're not required to keep this way of "paying" available for players.

And finally, as we've seen time and time again: people will always find a way to exploit stuff like this. So I think it's best if we just leave it alone.

Then SE has to find the loophole and plug it.


Sorry for grammar, i'm not a native speaker.

[AttacKat]

Also, what do you do when your subscription runs out, and there is no scroll on AH to buy?

This is why CCP has two ways for you to pay for your sub, via monthly cash payment, or appy a PLEX code in game.

You can always fall back to good old cash, and now with the option of making enough gils in game to pay for your next month's sub. ;p

jc