Religion should play a bigger role in ARR

[fusional]

It's all based on the religions of Eorzea.

i never said they weren't. but there's a marked difference between having (more) things in the game based on spirituality and mysticism in relation to the game's imagined religions... and having religion itself playing a bigger role.

[ZakarnRosewood]

I had started a similar topic a while ago with the same concerns.

God Damnit!

Check it out!

[Matsume]

Shamelessly cutting and pasting from Azury Ariella's Lore Compilation / Guide so as to strengthen my previous post

Good find Jacien!

To that point, I think it would be great if "the teachings of that god or goddess" were elaborated upon. I scant recall much lore pertaining to the twelve comming from the mouths of npcs nor books. Other than those dusty tomes there is very little feel to the Twelve's presence in all of eorzea. I think what the OP is calling for is some sort of manifestation in game of the will of the Twelve, taking the woodsin as an example.

I think an interesting system could work around reputation. For example, each god could have special quests given out by certain npcs at certain times of week/month/year. Completing these quests in the name of one of the gods would raise your reputation or valor in the name of that one god while simultaneously decreasing your reputation with all other gods. As you rise through the ranks in the name of that god more special quests become unlocked that require a greater degree of timing (alignment of the planets etc.). The rank would somehow unlock the ability to purchase dareisay God Specific Armor with stats according to the traits invoked by such deity. (I know it's kind of like the GC system but with the added effect of being disfavored by the 11 other gods).

On top of that, all of the players' reputation on one server are tallied for each god, giving a rank from 1 to 12 for the Twelve. This would show the evolution over time of the populations favor towards one god or another - but there would be consequences. The god least favored would be offended by such disrespect and so manifest it's anger in the calling of a beast such as an HNM or a roaming primal.

Sound fun?

Somewhat unrelated:


Will we ever get to see more of Hydaelyn or forever be confined o Eorzea? My understanding is that Eorzea is but one of many (?) continents on the planet known as Hydaelyn? What if Vanadaeyl was another continent perhaps destroyed in a previous era and laid to ruins over thousands of years? Would give some reason to why we still play the same races...

Or maybe future expansion packs could unlock other unrelated continenets that have som relation to the origins of each race if not the gods?

To begin with, the origin of life on Eorzea is said to be to wage wars in the name of the gods:

-The astral eras see man flourish and prosper whereas the umbral eras see man falter and doubt. Seems like both occur equally, so you get a long astral era then a long umbral era.
source: Dusty Tomes - THM guild

-At some point the Twelve stopped being peaceful and warring with each other. They created life to wage their wars. Since then 6 eras (an umbral and astral per era) have occurred.
source: Dusty Tomes - THM guild

-Sixth umbral era saw heavy rains and rises in sea-level flooding the lands. Once the waters receded the 6th astral era began and man was able to redevelop.
source: Dusty Tomes - THM guild

The "patrons" and "matrons" themselves have characteristic traits distinguishing each from the rest, each associated with the astral or umbral of one of the six elements (2 x 6 = 12):

Halone, the Fury (female)
Element: Ice
Depicted as: a relentless warrioress armed with a bronze greatshield
Symbol: three spears

-Mover and glaciers and goddess of war (char creation)
-Guardian deity of Ishgard (char creation)
-Daughter of Rhalgar (char creation)
-Rival of Nophica (char creation)

Menphina, the Lover (female)
Element: Ice
Depicted as: a maid carrying a round skillet
Symbol: full moon

-keeper of the twin moons and goddess of love (char creation)
-Sister of Azeyma (char creation)
-Divine lover of Oschon (char creation)
-The moon is the embodiment of the goddess Menphina
source: Joldewin
-Dalamund is Menphina's loyal hound and a smaller celestial body that watches over the moon (meteor?)
source: Joldewin
-Dalamand has begun to glow red. Could possibly mean an enemy of the goddess has tried to kill her and dalamund "spilled blood in her defence" (as of sept 2011 event)
source: Joldewin

Thaliak, the Scholar (male)
Element: Water
Depicted as: reserved scholar holding an ashen staff
Symbol: scroll

-ruler of rivers and wisdom and god of knowledge (char creation)
-guardian diety of Sharlayan (char creation)
-father of Llymlaen (char creation)
-teacher of Byregot (char creation)

Nymeia, the Spinner (female)
Element: Water
Depicted as: weaver donning a white, silken veil
Symbol: spinning wheel

-watcher of celestial bodies and goddess of fate (char creation)
-younger sister of Althyk (char creation)
-master of Rhalgr (char creation)

Llymlaen, the Navigator (female)
Element: Wind
Depicted as: strong fisherwoman wielding a long-bladed harpoon
Symbol: the wave

-watcher of seas and goddess of navigation (char creation)
-guardian deity of Limsa Lominsa (char creation)
-daughter of Thaliak (char creation)
-elder sister of Nophica (char creation)

Oschon, the Wanderer (male)
Element: Wind
Depicted as: a carefree ranger wielding a bow of yew
Symbol: walking stick

-ruler of the mountains and god of wanderers and vagrants (char creation)
-brother of Nald`thal (char creation)
-close companion of Halone (char creation)

Byregot, the Builder (male)
Element: Lightning
Depicted as: an ardent smith with a two-headed hammer
Symbol: the hand

-purveyor of architecture and industry, and god of the arts (char creation)
-elder brother of Halone (char creation)
-pupil of Thaliak (char creation)

Rhalgr, the Destroyer (male)
Element: Lightning
Depicted as: a magi carrying a staff of bronze
Symbol: the streaking meteor

-breaker of worlds, and the god of destruction (char creation)
-guardian deity of Ala Mhigo (char creation)
-father of Byregot and Halone (char creation)
-attendant to Nymeia (char creation)

Azeyma, the Warden (female)
Element: Fire
Depicted as: a noble lady holding a golden fan
Symbol: the radiant sun

-keeper of the sun and goddess of inquiry (char creation)
-daughter of Althyk (char creation)
-elder sister of Menphina (char creation)

Nald`thal, the Traders (male)
Element: Fire
Depicted as: a discerning merchant holding a balance
Symbol: the cowry, an ancient shell currency

-overseer of the underworld and god of commerce (char creation)
-the guardian deity of Ul`dah (char creation)
-single manifestation of deific twins Nald and Thal (char creation)
-Thal, one of the twins that makes up Nald'Thal (one of the Twelve) seems to be the god that brings death. Wenefreda asks "Has Thal taken me in my sleep?"
source: Wenefreda
-Nald and Thal are the Twins, also called the Traders. They govern all reality through their two aspects (life an death) and ensure order is maintained.
source: Sinette
-Thal's aspect is that of death and darkness
source: Fyrilsunn
-The Order of Nald'thal teaches that you cross into another realm when you die.
source: Minerva
-Thal's realm (the afterlife) is a paradise. There's no decay or disease, no pain or hunger, and it is the most beautiful place in existence.
source: Gogofu
-To cross over to the real of Thal you have to be "devout of mind - a true follower of Thal"
source: Tutubuki

Nophica, the Matron (female)
Element: Earth
Depicted as: a jubilant farmer holding a scythe of steel
Symbol: the spring leaf

-tender of soils and harvests, and goddess of abundance (char creation)
-guardian deity of Gridania (char creation)
-daughter of Azeyma (char creation)
-younger sister of Llymlaen (char creation)

Althyk, the Keeper
Element: Earth
Depicted as: an austere emperor wielding a mythril greataxe
Symbol: the hourglass

-surveyor of change and space, and god of time (char creation)
-father of Azeyma and Menphina (char creation)
-elder brother to Nymeia (char creation)

Now what I find of interest here is that as you will see next only a few of the gods are repestented as being the guardian deities of specific city states or regions, which begs to be elaborated upon...

Limsa Lominsa + La Noscea:
Guardian Deity: Llymlaen, the goddess of navigation and watcher of seas

Ul'dah + Thanalan:
Guardian Deity: Nald'thal, duality of twins who represent life and death, overseer of the underworld and god of commerce.

Gridania + The Black Shroud:
Guardian Deity: Nophica, the Matron, tender of soils and harvests, and goddess of abundance

Ala Mhigo:
Guardian Deity: Rhalgr, the Destroyer

Ishgard + Coerthas:
Guardian Deity: Halone, the fury, mover of glaciers and goddess of war

Sharlayan -West of Ishgard in Dravania (map):
Guardian deity: Thaliak, the Scholar
-the Dravania region is home to dragons who attack / are at war with Ishgard (Ermiance)

To elaborate on my first post, I imagine that the special patron/matron reputation related quests could be found only in those regions where the patron or matron is said to guard. This leaves a lot of room for improvement and expansion by creating new continents perhaps where the origins lie of those deities currently lacking a region to protect?

Also I would propose that we be not bound for life to the patron/matron of our initial choosing upon character creation. Rather, I would suggest that by doing these special quests and rising through the ranks of your favored patron/matron that the deity with which you have the highest reputation be "your patron/matron". So that this could change over time and allows you to access the other "god specific armor" from each of the other deities (admittedly this shouldn't be easy to do and not be spammable so that it takes a certain amount of devotion to get such gear).

Just a few thoughts rolling around in my head!

[AzuraSin]

The two of you might want to take a second look at the game you've been playing. Final Fantasy games have always incorporated an undeniable amount mythological elements from just about all of the religions of the world and have used them for it's foundation. There is nothing wrong in asking for a greater presence and involvement of the Twelve (gods) and Primals (demi-gods) that are the very foundation of FFXIV. Each player has taken a vow to a specific deity that contributes to the lore and immersion of the game. It's only logical that these deities have some sort of meaningful purpose and importance.

<3 your post and totally agree...

I think people who complain about religion don't understand that what SE taps into is deeper than "religion" ... it's lore/mythology, which is ubiquitous throughout human history and has nothing specifically with who/what you worship. I would also like to see them expand on the mythology of The Twelve and do more with it.

Haters, replace religion with mythology and relax ^^

[Orophin]

To be fair, I think the music accompanying Zi'Tah and Hall of the Gods is what made it "feel mystical". Ro'Maeve, the zone between the two, was far more interesting since it looked like a ruined city of the Zilart.

On topic, I'd like to see The Twelve have more of an impact somehow in ARR. When I first made my character, I knew I was going to be doing a lot of fishing and I picked Llymlaen as my deity. It'd be nice to gain some kind of bonus being aligned with her while fishing. More importantly though, I want them to have a greater impact in the story. I think some foreshadowing happened when praying to their respective stones, so I'm hoping they'll have a greater influence in ARR.

[Zantetsuken]

Somewhat unrelated:


Will we ever get to see more of Hydaelyn or forever be confined o Eorzea? My understanding is that Eorzea is but one of many (?) continents on the planet known as Hydaelyn? What if Vanadaeyl was another continent perhaps destroyed in a previous era and laid to ruins over thousands of years? Would give some reason to why we still play the same races...

Dev's have stated from the beginning that Hydaelyn and Vana'Diel have nothing to do with each-other. They exist in completely different realities.

I'm sure in the future, we will visit more of Hydaelyn, but I hope that Eorzea is completely explorable by then.

I felt that FFXI went off-track on this when it allowed us to travel through time before we ever got a chance to visit the far-west or far-east.



Back on Topic:

I hope Religion, and especially our choice of deity plays a bigger role in ARR than it did in 1.0.

In fact, from the point I started the game until I completed 'Livin' on a Prayer', I had completely forgotten which deity I had chosen for my char.

Pilgrimage Shrines for each Deity would be nice, some in cities, some remote. Players can visit them for a blessing of sorts.

I also like the Woodsin stat idea (much like Tonberry hate in FFXI)

[ZakarnRosewood]

I'm really hoping SE has plans to make the deities have a greater impact on game-play and story or just remove the choice all together if it is basically inconsequential. I'm thinking there was an initial idea to do so but when they made the decision to rebuild the game the importance of it fell by the wayside. With any luck in the months to come some light will shine through the clouds and strike us all with a divine lightning bold of wisdom on this subject.

[YeaniNah]

I just don't want the game change into religious image..like other game happen cos of complaint.... I believe in GOD maybe 1 maybe 2 , maybe many we all dont know ..we think we know ... but i don't believe in the Jesus or bible cos bible is modified every years and everybody know it ..i had all my bible from school didnt know why they gave me a new one and ask me to trash my old one. till i check everything we see in bible jesus was making us thing he was doing thing we tell us its bad at church they were taking it off and putting other thing ..but if its by the 14 final fantasy gods that is different. for me Mythology is neutral ..if we have quest like ifrit, or quest we need to send an Offering to any off them that for me to make is rage as peace that ok

[ZakarnRosewood]

I just don't want the game change into religious image..like other game happen cos of complaint.... I believe in GOD maybe 1 maybe 2 , maybe many we all dont know ..we think we know ... but i don't believe in the Jesus or bible cos bible is modified every years and everybody know it ..i had all my bible from school didnt know why they gave me a new one and ask me to trash my old one. till i check everything we see in bible jesus was making us thing he was doing thing we tell us its bad at church they were taking it off and putting other thing ..but if its by the 14 final fantasy gods that is different. for me Mythology is neutral ..if we have quest like ifrit, or quest we need to send an Offering to any off them that for me to make is rage as peace that ok

I dont think anyone what thinking outside the realm of the world of Erozea's gods. It would be pretty stupid to bring jesus or mohammed into this game.

[Kirol]

Hm, I'd like everyone to read this post here, as I'll try clear up a number of things.

First point will be the biggest. *Ahem.* All the personal deities are from the same Religion/Mythology.
They are, after all, called 'The Twelve', and in their own personal lore they are related to each other and coexist within the same lore.
Each, therefore, has their own segment to offer to the religious / mythological part of Eorzea, however, the Garleans seem to have a different system of worship, as has been made clear throughout the storyline, particularly by Nael van Darnus.
Think of it as the difference between Christianity, Islam, or Judaism (all Monotheistic) in comparison to Shinto, Hinduism, or the Norse/Greek religions respectively. (All Polytheistic.)
Polytheistic religions may have more than one Deity, but certain areas or demographics will be more partial to worshipping certain Deities over others, or even change at different times of year. However, all the deities apply within the religion just as all of the twelve apply here in Eorzea.
As for Woodsin and the Elementals, that appears to be a local lore to Gridania, separate to the main beliefs of the mythology. Likely thanks in part to the local phenomenon of the Elementals of the Twelveswood, and the moogles also residing within the wood. (See; Leprechauns in Ireland, despite being a catholic country. Loch Ness monster, Chubecabra, Bigfoot, etc.)
Anyway, I like the idea of the Woodsin counter, could be used in many ways. Could even work on a scale of -100~+100, being both in favour and out of favour of the elementals of the wood.

Second point would be to Matsume, my fellow Scarfie; Information was released stating that Ala Migho and Sharlavan (Two major cities) would be released at a later date. To have Ishgard (Already slated for a later release date), as well as two other cities released from Day One, as well as re-creating the entire world would be too much to undertake all at once.
All speculation, I know, but I presume the timeline will look a little like this.
[2.0 Released]->[Ishgard released in a later patch.]->[Gyn Abania Region, along with Pagl'than region (Containing a lot of lore surrounding Ul'dah, Sil'dah, Ala Mihgo, and prior occupation of the Garlean occupation of Ala Mihgo) released in first expansion pack.]->[More updates, and after more time...]->[Second Expansion pack, Dravania Region (And accompanying city of Sharlavan) released along with the region of Xelphatol. Much less is known about these areas than Ala Mihgo, so the first expansion would be able to set up lore for this.]->[At this time, all of Eorzea will be available, and likely free of Garlean occupation.]->[Third expansion begins to set up a strike back against the Empire, releasing more and more areas encroaching into their territory.]

As I said before, that's all speculation. It is, however, based upon what we know now, and the lore we have been given.
Anyway, Matsume, you're right on that Eorzea is just one region, I'd like to say it's one continent. Seems similar to Europe, connecting to the larger Asian continent in the East if you ask me.
As for bringing Vana'Diel into things, meeehhhhh... FFXI and FFXIV are two separate games. I'd like to keep it that way.
But for your own sake, let's just say that maybe it was and maybe it was destroyed in the Second Umbral era. Or something.

Anyway, I hope that clears a few things up, and offers you some thoughts about things.
Only time will tell. ;o