SE stop doing the "norm"

[Firon]

I bet these idiots gonna tell me Fenir was solo content as well cause a few select RDM's could solo him...

[Jynx]

I bet these idiots gonna tell me Fenir was solo content as well cause a few select RDM's could solo him...

You still have yet to tell me that a player could find himself twidling his thumbs because there was no one online, the real crux of this debate.

There was plenty of content to do solo, fact is fact.

[Babydoll]

You still have yet to tell me that a player could find himself twidling his thumbs because there was no one online, the real crux of this debate.

There was plenty of content to do solo, fact is fact.

Indeed. The only ones who stood around doing absolutely nothing are the ones who did not want to do anything for themselves. I always made my own parties, ran my own Dynamis and HNM LS, I did everything myself. Not that hard lol.

[Arcell]

Indeed. The only ones who stood around doing absolutely nothing are the ones who did not want to do anything for themselves. I always made my own parties, ran my own Dynamis and HNM LS, I did everything myself. Not that hard lol.

Making your own parties and running LSs is productive certainly but it's not doing it "yourself". The point I believe they're trying to make is that at a certain point you did need groups to progress when content was relevant, or at least most players did. Also there should be a distinction between what content was intended for and what players actually did with it. If it was created for a group, it's group content. If players find a way to get around this and solo it, it was still created as group content. Players simply made it solo content.

[Xmbei]

Indeed. The only ones who stood around doing absolutely nothing are the ones who did not want to do anything for themselves. I always made my own parties, ran my own Dynamis and HNM LS, I did everything myself. Not that hard lol.

I am sure you completed Shadow Lord, Ark Angels, Black Coffin, and Promy's (pre level cap removal) and all the other Main Story fights ;D. Seriously gtfo all of you elitist dicks. You might not think yourself as one but the 3 of you are acting like it, with the whole "I can solo everything FFXI!!!! You others just fail and don't live up to my standard" (Heck Babydoll you even said that yourself, I hate elitest and when you said that I loathed you) Why you might ask? Because it is exactly you people and my friends that wouldn't help those that need it because "they weren't up to snuff to your ridiculously high standards" or "We already did it and I sure as hell don't want to do it again".
I tried my hardest for years to get those done, What I cared about was the story and because of people in the community like what I am seeing here saying everything is solo, is the shit that made me give up, I never beat Ark Angels or Black Coffin or any of the stories except Shadow Lord, because after shouting 6 Hrs a day for 6 months straight and being ignored, you all can eat it.
Yes I am upset because I hate the Elitist attitude so many in XI had. It is reason Why I could get nothing done, (not because I didn't have skill) It was because I DIDN'T have the damn time to do any of it.... I was in the Navy, duty day every 3rd day (which is working 24hrs+a work day) then being out to sea randomly for 4 years. I could never make it into an end game shell due to these things, then when a friend would hook me up, I would get boned by the navy and 1-2 weeks later get kicked by lack of participation (not my direct fault).
The other problem with a lot of the Solo-Content that has been put up. It puts no real forward motion in character development. No XP from Quests? Yes they were fun just to do, but the rewards were small. People at least want a tangible reward for something they worked hard on solo. Self-Satisfaction in a game only goes so far.
Also again on the Elitist, If you are so amazing to do something solo, doesn't mean everyone is, so stop rubbing it in everyones face and have some humbleness. It is what turns people off of games, which will be a challenge for all the new players at ARR release because we will have a lot of people with all 50's rubbing it in the new players face and not helping them get things done because "Oh I did it myself! You weakling/bad player you should stop playing!" Instead, (and I am not saying you are not also a kind soul and help players (but for majority people that rub it in others face that they do something better than others won't do this)) why don't you help that person because obviously they are having trouble or are not confident in their own ability yet, so go help them, give them pointers while doing so and evolve a great community like early XI had, before all the elitist end game shells, and it will propegate where we all help each other! That's what I want out of ARR above all else.

[Babydoll]

I am sure you completed Shadow Lord, Ark Angels, Black Coffin, and Promy's (pre level cap removal) and all the other Main Story fights ;D. Seriously gtfo all of you elitist dicks. You might not think yourself as one but the 3 of you are acting like it, with the whole "I can solo everything FFXI!!!! You others just fail and don't live up to my standard" (Heck Babydoll you even said that yourself, I hate elitest and when you said that I loathed you) Why you might ask? Because it is exactly you people and my friends that wouldn't help those that need it because "they weren't up to snuff to your ridiculously high standards" or "We already did it and I sure as hell don't want to do it again".
I tried my hardest for years to get those done, What I cared about was the story and because of people in the community like what I am seeing here saying everything is solo, is the shit that made me give up, I never beat Ark Angels or Black Coffin or any of the stories except Shadow Lord, because after shouting 6 Hrs a day for 6 months straight and being ignored, you all can eat it.
Yes I am upset because I hate the Elitist attitude so many in XI had. It is reason Why I could get nothing done, (not because I didn't have skill) It was because I DIDN'T have the damn time to do any of it.... I was in the Navy, duty day every 3rd day (which is working 24hrs+a work day) then being out to sea randomly for 4 years. I could never make it into an end game shell due to these things, then when a friend would hook me up, I would get boned by the navy and 1-2 weeks later get kicked by lack of participation (not my direct fault).
The other problem with a lot of the Solo-Content that has been put up. It puts no real forward motion in character development. No XP from Quests? Yes they were fun just to do, but the rewards were small. People at least want a tangible reward for something they worked hard on solo. Self-Satisfaction in a game only goes so far.
Also again on the Elitist, If you are so amazing to do something solo, doesn't mean everyone is, so stop rubbing it in everyones face and have some humbleness. It is what turns people off of games, which will be a challenge for all the new players at ARR release because we will have a lot of people with all 50's rubbing it in the new players face and not helping them get things done because "Oh I did it myself! You weakling/bad player you should stop playing!" Instead, (and I am not saying you are not also a kind soul and help players (but for majority people that rub it in others face that they do something better than others won't do this)) why don't you help that person because obviously they are having trouble or are not confident in their own ability yet, so go help them, give them pointers while doing so and evolve a great community like early XI had, before all the elitist end game shells, and it will propegate where we all help each other! That's what I want out of ARR above all else.

Okay...sorry that being self sufficient is an elitist...also I am SO glad that you can judge me based on a few posts I have made on an online forum. Shows good character! Truly. You have no idea how kind I am to my friends, how much I love helping and meeting new people..and how mostly everyone on my server knew me as the person who would sit around..wait for shouts and go help people. Apparently I am a hardcore end game snob.

Judging that I have 0 king gear also...I gave it all to my LS members...yup what an elitist sob I am! I passed all the Dalms to other Summoners, gave away all the Ebodies, the Manteels, the Jorm Poles..Gaiters...TO EVERYONE BUT MYSELF. Also add in that I did not get ONE item from the time I ran HNMLS....LOL you know me so, so well my dear.

I guess because I enjoyed playing FFXI with my boyfriend and duoing/soloing things because how I am sick (I shouldn't be posting this but whatever, since you know me so well you should know this as well) back then with my heart condition...I would solo because I did not want to have to go AFK every 10 minutes and bother people in the EXP PT or while camping NM. Sorry I did not feel compelled to post my entire medical history on here, I did not realize that if I did not share every last personal detail that I would be labeled in such a poor manner.

I suppose I should tell my boyfriend go f himself and play alone or to get over it if we don't have hours on end to sit and play with others so we choose to solo.

Please..by all means, continue to tell me more about myself. I have never in all my internet years come across such a cruel and judgmental person. Really, this is worse then the FFXIAH.com jealous girls I had to put up with.

[Xmbei]

Okay...sorry that being self sufficient is an elitist...also I am SO glad that you can judge me based on a few posts I have made on an online forum. Shows good character! Truly. You have no idea how kind I am to my friends, how much I love helping and meeting new people..and how mostly everyone on my server knew me as the person who would sit around..wait for shouts and go help people. Apparently I am a hardcore end game snob.

Judging that I have 0 king gear also...I gave it all to my LS members...yup what an elitist sob I am! I passed all the Dalms to other Summoners, gave away all the Ebodies, the Manteels, the Jorm Poles..Gaiters...TO EVERYONE BUT MYSELF. Also add in that I did not get ONE item from the time I ran HNMLS....LOL you know me so, so well my dear.

I guess because I enjoyed playing FFXI with my boyfriend and duoing/soloing things because how I am sick (I shouldn't be posting this but whatever, since you know me so well you should know this as well) back then with my heart condition...I would solo because I did not want to have to go AFK every 10 minutes and bother people in the EXP PT or while camping NM. Again...yup, true elitist!!

I suppose I should tell my boyfriend go f himself and play alone or to get over it if we don't have hours on end to sit and play with others so we choose to solo.

Please..by all means, continue to tell me more about myself. I have never in all my internet years come across such a cruel and judgmental person. Really, this is worse then the FFXIAH.com jealous girls I had to put up with.

Way to not read it all -.- I said in the last paragraph that you might be a kind soul. lol but still my point stands for most of the majority of people I had experience with

Edit: P.S. because I am in a rush out the door to get to school forgot to add this. I am sorry to offend you so greatly, and for your health problems. It was just compounded with Elexia and Jynx statements and just past history on FFXI that that quote and the continuation of stating "(we) did it all ourself" falred it off... The fact that I tried to get things done myself but no one would help me still is the biggest regret for me in FFXI before I quit. Again I am sorry, it might of started out targeting you but in general it was a blanket statement.... I just want a better community that will help each other. Not one that excludeds others because of players teiring content to a scale that some never get to do it.

[Babydoll]

Way to not read it all -.- I said in the last paragraph that you might be a kind soul. lol but still my point stands for most of the majority of people I had experience with

Edit: P.S. because I am in a rush out the door to get to school forgot to add this. I am sorry to offend you so greatly, and for your health problems. It was just compounded with Elexia and Jynx statements and just past history on FFXI that that quote and the continuation of stating "(we) did it all ourself" falred it off... The fact that I tried to get things done myself but no one would help me still is the biggest regret for me in FFXI before I quit. Again I am sorry, it might of started out targeting you but in general it was a blanket statement.... I just want a better community that will help each other. Not one that excludeds others because of players teiring content to a scale that some never get to do it.

Alright it is okay >.< I do not like fighting ; ; It just struck a nerve because I am anything but an elitist...I really do enjoy helping others for the sake of seeing them progress and smile. I really cannot put up with elitists myself so to be called one was ugh >.<

Don't worry about it...sorry I did not catch that part at the end..lol I was too angry with being called elite >.< I understand what you are saying how it can come off that way... a lot of folks got frustrated with feeling trapped and helpless because no one would be willing to help each other out, which shocked me at first. That is why I made it one of my goals to help people..especially those who have been shouting for hours. It was really awful to see Anyway yeah, no problem!!

[Antipika]

(...)Yes I am upset because I hate the Elitist attitude so many in XI had. It is reason Why I could get nothing done, (not because I didn't have skill) It was because I DIDN'T have the damn time to do any of it....
(...)

If your schedule/lifestyle isn't suited for XI end-game, then just don't do it. We all knew that XI endgame back in the days was really time consuming.

It has nothing to do with the fact of being Elitist or not. If you don't have the time do something, having skills doesn't matter. This is a MMO, time/schedule regularity is in direct relationship with what you can achieve endgame wise.

If you only want to rely on your skills and -not- on the time/regularity, then go play a competitive multiplayer game that's not an MMO. You won't have to log on at specific time in order to progress. You play when you decide to play.
---
XI actually is one those MMO who enabled endgame linkshell to work fine even with players who cannot commit regularly to events.

- Anything in open areas (Sky/Sea) could be done with an unlimited amount of players.
- For HNMs, having over an alliance was never a waste (swap people who died, take care of any potential add, send another party in advance to another HNM that is about to spawn etc.).
- Dynamis was up to 36~64 (Tav was a bit special with 18) and most of Linkshells did not have 36+ players always online...
- Limbus groups can be splitted and different alliance can be made in order to collect chip faster.

I probably forgot a lot of content.

Now if you take a look at modern MMOs, the "norm" is to have raids with a set amount of players that isn't scalable by any mean. A raid-20 is made for 20 players, not 19, not 21.
With 19 (unless you are not progressing anymore or unless your guild is exceptional), you will wipe.
With 21, one will stay outside.
No possibility to invite someone else (outside guild) due to lockouts, so at the best case you can invite someone that isn't raiding with another guild, but it can be pretty messy...

The system is really rigid, not allowing players with a busy schedule to take part in raiding. It's either you can commit, either you don't raid in a guild (at least not the latest content).

[Jynx]

"I can solo everything FFXI!!!! You others just fail and don't live up to my standard"

If that's what you think the current conversation is about at all your terribly mistaken. I don't think anyone said anywhere that the entire game was soloable, it begun as a discussion around a good MMO having a balance of activities that a diverse ammount of people could play.

There is Solo play (Crafting, Gathering, solo quests)
Small Group Play (Party, NM hunting, quests)
Large group play (HNM, Dynamis, Einheriar)
Freeform group play (Besieged, Campaign)

There needs to be a good balance so that people can play even when they don't have a raid to do, so people have something other to do when the game is on than raid and then log out. People sometimes want to be engaged outside of a instanced dungeon...it's crazy I know but it's what worked in older MMOs.