The growing entitlement issues of the casuals

[Molly_Millions]

Casual: People who realize that this and other games are just that - games. They typically are pursuing a college degree, or otherwise working a full time job. These people want to log on and just have some fun.

Hardcore: People who have no real life obligations, and therefore view the game as most casual players would real life. They think the game matters, and so want to be better than everyone in the virtual world because they are neckbeards in real life.

Hey now, I consider myself a pretty hardcore gamer, and I hold down a real job. Your definition is a little off.

[Akumu]

Then dont do HNM's standing around for 3hrs, go do ein for 30min's / twice a week. Solved your problem.

HNM's were for speed, the 21-24hr respawn, 3hr wait, was there to slow us down some.

No it was there because it was a design flaw. How does a game that tells you not to forget your family, friends, work, and etc have something so dreadful of a time sink as HNMs. XI system was highly flawed and even though I enjoyed the game I hate when people pretend as if the ship isn't sinking.

You guys are like the people playing the music at the end of the Titanic movie. Grab a damn door and try to live a little.

[Kazimir]

You know what, we shouldn't even be using the casual and hardcore labels anymore. Let's call this what it really is.

Bad players vs good players.

When it comes right down to it a skilled group of casuals can do a hard fight the first couple times they do it. They aren't the one's complaining. It's the bad players. They wipe 10 times in a row and complain about it being to difficult or too much of a "time sink" so devs just put everything on easy mode so that everyone can breeze right through.

They do this because bad players outnumber the good players. Bad players spam the forums about things taking too long because they're too hard. Even a casual can do a 3 hour event on the weekends with no problem as long as they're good. But a bad player will complain. Because they don't have a tank that can stay alive, or they don't have time to deal with an LS so they want to be able to beat everything in crappy PUG groups.

So SE, we don't truly want content that is actually a time sink. We don't want to sit around for an HNM pop for 3 hours. We just want a fight so hard it may take us a couple weeks of doing it every day to get the strategy down to beat it. Don't let the bad players win and take over this MMO like so many others. Give them some things on easy mode. Give us plenty on hard mode and give us superior RARE equipment for simply just being better.


EDIT: I forgot, we also want some things that require a lot of people. Give us SOMETHING that takes at least 30 people to do. It's fun.

[Jeronlmo]

The fact that my "Forum Account" was made recent only means im barely on forums, you can look me up on FF11 (Fenrir - Jeronlmo) and tell me how much i posted after playing since the game came out and probably spent more time in social ls's and HNM's than you.

I also pre-ordered this game and was just waiting to get a new comp, so ive prob owned this game longer than you.

[Jeronlmo]

"Abyssea is one of the many ways they are trying to patch a flawed gaming design that was noticed by the world when WoW was released. It was obvious back then that XI would get that treatment."

So your version of a "patch" for a flawed gameing design is to destroy the game.

Forgetting your family/friends? really? The majority of you talking about HNM's, never did HNM's i swear, starting from those post when people say "Why would you want to camp something for 24hrs" to those of you thinking we even camped 3hrs strait.

3hr windows is a total amount, the mob could pop every 30min's within that 3hrs, you show up, you wait 2min's for the window, you afk for 29min's with your family/homework/life, come back for 2min's, if the mob pop 5-10min's.

[Jeronlmo]

The majority of HNM ls's (atleast on my server) and i was in alot, never fkn stop talking about college classes/homework/families on vent, its time management, get some.

[Eekiki]

You know what, we shouldn't even be using the casual and hardcore labels anymore. Let's call this what it really is.

Bad players vs good players.

When it comes right down to it a skilled group of casuals can do a hard fight the first couple times they do it. They aren't the one's complaining. It's the bad players. They wipe 10 times in a row and complain about it being to difficult or too much of a "time sink" so devs just put everything on easy mode so that everyone can breeze right through.

They do this because bad players outnumber the good players. Bad players spam the forums about things taking too long because they're too hard. Even a casual can do a 3 hour event on the weekends with no problem as long as they're good. But a bad player will complain. Because they don't have a tank that can stay alive, or they don't have time to deal with an LS so they want to be able to beat everything in crappy PUG groups.

So SE, we don't truly want content that is actually a time sink. We don't want to sit around for an HNM pop for 3 hours. We just want a fight so hard it may take us a couple weeks of doing it every day to get the strategy down to beat it. Don't let the bad players win and take over this MMO like so many others. Give them some things on easy mode. Give us plenty on hard mode and give us superior RARE equipment for simply just being better.


EDIT: I forgot, we also want some things that require a lot of people. Give us SOMETHING that takes at least 30 people to do. It's fun.

Totally 100% agreed.

[Cendres]

I am 31 years old, I have a job , a husband and a child. I DO NOT AND WILL NOT SACRIFICE time away from these things just to MAYBE get some drop after spending hours on end either camping or killing crap that does not give any challenge other then time spent. It's not because you sink in a whole day/week into something that you are more skilled, you just have more time/patience. You want a reward for that? Here's a cookie, the rest of us will smirk quietly while we wait for you to grow up and realize what happens when gaming can no longer be your whole life if you want to achieve other things of value.

I want a challenge, I want to be able to schedule a day off once or twice a week to do something fun and even HARD with my LS. I want great content that's engaging with an awesome story. I do not want mindless and repetitive content that forces me to stay logged for hours at a time developing eye strain, wrist injury and so forth.

Ask yourself what you value as a gamer? Is it the insane amount of time spent really a reward? Or do you want to be rewarded for a job well done? In a perfect world we would have both and I think this is what this game is trying to achieve, copy and pasting what was done in FFXI is really not the answer because that game was the cause of some issues of the anti social nature when it comes to family and real life. There HAS to be a better way to design challenge and reward that's better then FFXI's camping system. In fact I am convinced there is and hopefully SE can find it.

The only difference there should be between supposed casuals and hardcore gamers are the amount of crap you get done in a week. Hardcores will have more, however the quality of each thing acquired should be the same and accessible to everyone in some way. If you do not agree I sincerely hope you examine what it is about yourself that makes you want to jealously guard quality items IF the challenge is the same for everyone.

Again HARD does not equal time invested, and if it is the path to get there should still be accessible for everyone; hardcores get there faster but casuals still have the option to take their time and still get there eventually. This is not possible if end game battles last for 10 hours in one sitting for example.

On a personal note I so don't care about gear, as long as it's pretty and has some amount of protection I'm happy. I will never be in the group that demands more easily achievable gear but I take offense to those who want to portray me in a way that isn't true. I may only have so much time on my hands for this game, that does not mean I do not care or do not deserve the same level of enjoyment. I know full well it's takes me forever to gain levels and will only get so many jobs maxed, and that's okay as long as I CAN participate with what I have that's all I ask.

[Xatsh]

I find it amusing that the hardcore players in general are not against SE adding casual content to the game, but as soon as the hardcore people want some content to keep them occupied the casual go on a rampage.

If square whats the game to succeed they need to make both groups happy. Casual make up the majority of the market but hardcore make up a lot of their existing mmo base on both ffxi and XIV (the people who been with square's mmos for around a decade). Make content for both you make both groups happy.

Why can't their be content for both, I am a hardcore player and I do not care if casuals have content, but it just pisses me off that the casuals are so greedy they refuse to let me have content I can enjoy.

Hardcore gamers it is a choice, just like trying to be the best at Baseball, Football, bowling, or anything else in life. Some people do it purely for the fun of it and do not care about being the best, some to try to really excel at the activity. This whole OMG no hardcore content at all BS people are screaming about just makes no sense. No one complains at all about being "Hardcore" outside a game. Not many say the NFL players where losers for wasting their life on a game, and I never heard anyone try to sue them or anything for the NFL players getting more spotlight then Jr.High football teams.

All in all nothing good in life should come easy, to be the best should take dedication. This may be a game but as in chess if you do not practice it and have patients you will really suck at it, and honestly that is how it should be... the instant success movement for mmos is just plain stupid.

Someone who puts in the time to be the best should be the best.... if you only puts in 10hrs a week it is your choice but it should literally take you 4xs as long as a hardcore who puts in 40hrs to progress.... that is how it works in life and in every other game on the planet. You get what you put in. You casuals can try to disagree with this last statement I made but if you do you are just wrong take a look at the world.

[Abriael]

I find it amusing that the hardcore players in general are not against SE adding casual content to the game, but as soon as the hardcore people want some content to keep them occupied the casual go on a rampage.

Nope. Some (you included) want content that can be enjoyed only by themselves and those similar to them, others want content that can be enjoyed by everyone.
That's all there's to it, and it's quite different from what you described in an extremely biased way.

Someone who puts in the time to be the best should be the best

"best" is a measure of skill, not time.