Lets Talk - Red Mage

[SwordCoheir]

So you want a very very powerfull frontline job, that gets nuke/heal/buff/debuff skills. This will never happen, if they implement RDM it gotta be a backline job that actually does the same it allready did in ffxi and not more.

Most ppl that want RDM, want a overpowerd solojob they can kite everything to death like it was possbile in FFXI but i doubt SE gonna be so stupid doing this again.

Quite the opposite, most who disdain people who want RDM or when RDM's ask for something relevant, seem to jump to this conclusion. If anything most RDM's and people desiring RDM want to have their own uniqueness that's sought after by groups while keeping within the RDM's spectrum of front liner with magic capabilities a battle-mage or spell-sword if you will, most do not want the bastardized FFXI rendition of RDM that lost 98% it's uniqueness and effectiveness after the level cap went beyond 75 that SE mostly left untouched for over 8 years.

[Ladon]

Quite the opposite, most who disdain people who want RDM or when RDM's ask for something relevant, seem to jump to this conclusion. If anything most RDM's and people desiring RDM want to have their own uniqueness that's sought after by groups while keeping within the RDM's spectrum of front liner with magic capabilities a battle-mage or spell-sword if you will, most do not want the bastardized FFXI rendition of RDM that lost 98% it's uniqueness and effectiveness after the level cap went beyond 75 that SE mostly left untouched for over 8 years.

You aren't going to find any uniqueness in creating yet another DD focused class.

Also this idea of RDMs being frontline is a total arbitrary concept made up by a certain subset of people. RDMs are as people are aware a jack of all trades. They can somewhat fight and somewhat use spells. People also realize that this jack-of-all-trades style does not work in MMOs and therefore need to focus the RDMs in one of it's trades to be considered useful. This however does not mean he has to be a front line fighter. This is just one route to go. They can also take the class more towards it's spell casting perspective and still be a Red Mage. They did this poorly with FFXI, however I blame it more on the mechanics of the game NOT the concept of the class. The concept of the class was solid, they just ended up watering down FFXI by making too many jobs and bleeding class roles all over the place.

Once again, a enhancer RDM in FF14 is completely valid. It could easily be made to fill a unique role as one unlike trying to make it another Dragoon with a different set of weaponskills and a cool hat. And once again, thoughtful engagement of a class is determined more by the content, not the design of the class. If enmity was for example proximity based, a tank in this game would be completely boring. BLM roles are already marginally boring on the ones that just require them to stand in one spot casing Thunder combos all fight. Enemies without AEs are boring as hell for most melee DD and low damage fights such as Hamlet are snorefests for WHMs that actually make me hate playing the class in them.

[Wynn]

Also this idea of RDMs being front line is a total arbitrary concept made up by a certain subset of people.

I could not possibly disagree with you more.

There is a reason Red Mages equip armor and wield swords instead of robes, wands and staves. They are 100% meant to use those things and you don't do that sitting on the back line casting refresh and haste ad nauseum.

Enspells are yet another indicator of what SE meant RDM to be even in XI. Enspells are self melee buffs. Phalanx was a self buff to mitigate melee damage from an enemy. Composure was specifically designed to buff melee ability in both attack accuracy and to prolong those self buffs. Every single incarnation of the RDM design in Final Fantasy points to its place being on the front line.

The history of the job does not support your claims.

While there may be room for a job you envision, it would be a mistake to make that RDM when RDM has never been about that and the fans of the job do not want what you describe for their favorite job.

[Denmo]

Maybe it's just me, and forgive me for being off topic, but has anyone noticed a trend in posters? The ones most yearning for FFXI days always seem to be Roegadyn... Or maybe I'm just being racist...

Probably racist.



On topic, Red mage. Too early to speculate. SE has a new system that may well allow for Red Mage to remain unique rather than just a jack-of-all-trades-master-of-nothing class.

Personally? I want Fencer class -> Red Mage job. I want rapiers, and I want actual fencing moves. I want Red Mage meleeing while it casts magic. Its DPS should be maximized by doing a little bit of everything, not focusing on only one. That sounds fun to me.

[Shougun]

Maybe it's just me, and forgive me for being off topic, but has anyone noticed a trend in posters? The ones most yearning for FFXI days always seem to be Roegadyn... Or maybe I'm just being racist...

Probably racist.



On topic, Red mage. Too early to speculate. SE has a new system that may well allow for Red Mage to remain unique rather than just a jack-of-all-trades-master-of-nothing class.

Personally? I want Fencer class -> Red Mage job. I want rapiers, and I want actual fencing moves. I want Red Mage meleeing while it casts magic. Its DPS should be maximized by doing a little bit of everything, not focusing on only one. That sounds fun to me.

FFXI in me says dancer meets blue mage.

[Denmo]

FFXI in me says dancer meets blue mage.

A Dance of Swords!
A Mesmerizing Mage Meanders Magic with Malice!

Witness his Lightning-quick lunges, his Firey-fast fleurets, his Brisk bravado! No woman can Resist his charm, and no foe can break his Stoneskin-deep resolve! This valiant vagabond knows no bounds, no limits, no defeat! His disastrous Dueling dexterity decimates defilers (and his crazy combo conjurings can't be cold-shouldered). Feel the flower blooming! Free your faculty of finalities, and follow that fencing fiend, the Red Mage!







(I feel something like this would be wasted if all Red Mage did was stand around and cast buffs. I guess that's me wanting XIV to be a "unique snowflake". I did play XI, but I watched people playing Red Mage, and it looked incredibly boring and not at all what I imagined it would be)

[Ingolf]

Maybe it's just me, and forgive me for being off topic, but has anyone noticed a trend in posters? The ones most yearning for FFXI days always seem to be Roegadyn... Or maybe I'm just being racist...

Probably racist.



On topic, Red mage. Too early to speculate. SE has a new system that may well allow for Red Mage to remain unique rather than just a jack-of-all-trades-master-of-nothing class.

Personally? I want Fencer class -> Red Mage job. I want rapiers, and I want actual fencing moves. I want Red Mage meleeing while it casts magic. Its DPS should be maximized by doing a little bit of everything, not focusing on only one. That sounds fun to me.

I wouldn't say I'm yearning for XI, but a lot of people don't remember things that did happen in XI. Either in an overly positive (COP WAS SO FUN XDDDDD) or negative (XI's RDM WAS UNDERPOWERED) way.

[moriandrio]

I wouldn't say I'm yearning for XI, but a lot of people don't remember things that did happen in XI. Either in an overly positive (COP WAS SO FUN XDDDDD) or negative (XI's RDM WAS UNDERPOWERED) way.

RDM underpowerd lol, it was the job that was the most overpowerd job in the 75s. That he was only healer/enhancer/enfeebler in endgame had the reason that it was the best job in it. RDM was never supposed to be a super melee job and thats what most ppl yearning for....

[Kiote]

RDM underpowerd lol, it was the job that was the most overpowerd job in the 75s. That he was only healer/enhancer/enfeebler in endgame had the reason that it was the best job in it. RDM was never supposed to be a super melee job and thats what most ppl yearning for....

No, Red Mage was never meant to be a replacement healer. It was meant to be a frontline Job. That is why it had Melee enhancement spells. That's why it has fast cast. That's why it had refresh. That's why it had convert. All of the Red mages abilities were designed to allow it to do moderate Melee Damage while maintaining enough MP to use magic without resting.

The only reason they didn't end up being a melee class is the Melee Damage was not properly balanced. They did under powered Damage and fed the enemies TP.

No one can look at XIs RDM and say, with honesty, it wasn't intended to be a front line job.

[Judge_Xero]

Personally? I want Fencer class -> Red Mage job. I want rapiers, and I want actual fencing moves. I want Red Mage meleeing while it casts magic. Its DPS should be maximized by doing a little bit of everything, not focusing on only one. That sounds fun to me.

Exactly what I think of with Red Mage.

It should be one of those classes that is hard to master, but if you do....Then other jobs/classes QQ till it's nerfed.

No but really. I think it could be a DPS beast. With enfeebling WS's. Cut down defenses, add elemental weaknesses. etc.

Need a fancy mechanic for it, like Evade for Monk, Parry for Warrior.

- Forced Dual Cast after a critical WS hit.

So....Secondary Classes Thaum/Pug?

I.E.
-Stab -> Combo to -> Lunge (Combo Bonus: Increased Critical) -> Dual Cast Thundaga
-Blind Side -> Aura Strike (Reduce Magic Defense) -> Dual Cast Fireaga

Base Stats - INT Primary, Dex Secondary

Could be fun