If someone makes a deadly boss mods type addon for ARR would you use it?

[ShinigamiKayla]

There really is no nice way to say it, but if people put in more time than you, they should get more, I have a full-time job, I have family, that doesnt mean the game should be nerfed because of me, you should never be on-par people that endlessly play, thats just rediculous, this same argument was used in 11 but thank god it didnt have official forums.

People that play less have access to 100% content, your rl might stop/hold you back, but thats your choice, how is that fair to hold back every other person that plays the game to your lvl basically. In 11 I started playing when I was 12, I did nothing but casual ls's (excluding my sky ls) until 4yrs later, I didnt know anything about endgame until then, I just didnt see it in day-to-day game play, it wasnt thrown in your face and I was happy with what I had. If your a casual player, you should accept this and what you can accomplish in a given day, you can learn stratagy by watching video's if you have less play time, read guides.

Ive seen so many people on FF14 that refuse to even look at a guide or watch a video, its just pothetic, its something so simple to do, but they actually rely on people to tell them what to do mid-run, endgame ls's atleast imo are not for training, its for doing endgame.

This new idea of "I pay the same sub as you should I should be able to do anything at any time" is complete BS, even in 11 people paid the same sub and all had access to all content, it was the drive/dedication to get to the content that kept people away.

your only endgame experience was in XI? didn't in a previous post I stated something about that... you want to appeal to a larger audience not just those that played XI... i played XI since I was 12 until I was 20 was my first MMO I also however on the other hand also played WoW and a ton of other MMOs in which I did all endgame... hell maybe I played to many MMOs but you can repeat the same patterns and expect a lot of new people to play... screw the 30% that think they are special because they dedicate days of their life playing a game... maybe on the other hand they should go out and get a life... its unhealthy and you can tell who they are by how they act towards others...

[Jeronlmo]

There is a severe difference in a bot telling you what to do, and you/your guild figuring things out to win something. All of that effort of even looking at vidoe's or reading guides (made by people who have done it without guides/videos) or figuring things out for yourself translates into actually deserving something, actually working for it, being smart enough to just remember you need to get out of the fire when you need to.

If you think a bot telling you what to do means you won the raid, you didnt, your bot won the raid for you.

People like you do not understand how endgame works, if the option is there, I will use what will get me further, but I can not want it to be there. If you do not use something that helps you, your an idiot, plain and simple, but if I can avoid it being an option I would be happy about it. We had this same argument with ff11's abyssea in using "atma's", "if you dont like atma's just dont use them", shits just dumb, abyssea would have been amazing if atma's werent there, now the game is only left with casual gimps who back in the day could barely kill Genbu thinking they are good because you can now solo a "new relic" reguardless of how gimp you are.

[Jeronlmo]

your only endgame experience was in XI? didn't in a previous post I stated something about that... you want to appeal to a larger audience not just those that played XI... i played XI since I was 12 until I was 20 was my first MMO I also however on the other hand also played WoW and a ton of other MMOs in which I did all endgame... hell maybe I played to many MMOs but you can repeat the same patterns and expect a lot of new people to play... screw the 30% that think they are special because they dedicate days of their life playing a game... maybe on the other hand they should go out and get a life... its unhealthy and you can tell who they are by how they act towards others...

I have also played other games/MMO's, own my own business, and have a family, its not about feeling special from playing 11, its from going from a good game design, to a game design that caters to gimps who dont already know to get out of the fire, you have to be told.

[Promethevs]

dungeon finder has nothing to do with addons.

on another point, the golden age of WoW (before dungeon finder) is largely considered to be TBC through Ulduar, where encounters were designed with addon usage in mind (the trend of designing to addons probably started very early on with blackwing lair, the 2nd raid of the original package).

some of the most dynamic encounters were introduced in this era. even with the addons certain bosses would take a month (the most being 5-6 months with Yogg'Saron with 0 titans) to take down by professional raiding guilds.

the notion that addons will make even the scrubbiest player a master and that the game will be played in ezmode is a poorly conceived misconception with absolutely no basis. there's always the potential to make a difficult encounter for even the best of players, addons or not. if you can't see that this is true, you don't realize just how much freedom you have in games like FFXIV in the way of margin of error on performance. the gap between the most difficult encounter here and the most difficult encounter in WoW's history is staggering.

the notion that addons also breed a game full of retards, ruining it for everyone who's awesome also has no basis.

[ShinigamiKayla]

oh wow... you just proved me right only bringing examples out of FFXI... seriously people need to be more open minded and not closed minded -.-/ Jero you are closed minded and think everyone should treat you like a princes huh?

[Shougun]

Dungeon finder is for the crappy players who no one wants to play with in their party.

IF players are too lazy to figure out a strat or do research to figure out a fight from community knowledge... they are the people who completely fail to begin with.

Baby hand holding needs to be removed... casual who cannot take the time to figure out a hard fight and cry need to just be told to leave the game. It is add ons like this that ruin mmos, and it forces the devs to develop content with it in mind.

No one goes into a fight without being told what to do unless they are the first ones to fight that boss - or its an easy boss.

Joined a raven party first thing that happened - two paragraphs of what to do if X happens. If not that there are always guides that get proliferated through chats and forums. Or in moogle fights there is always the shouter for moogle order so everyone attacks the same mog.

Its lovely to think hand holding is squashed without addons or is being done with addons. But its being done either way - at least this way you didnt have to type it yourself.

[Kikosho]

It's not a bot... it's information, broken down and simplified so you can make correct decisions when the need arises. Big difference. Aside from that, since this game will be running on the PS3, I don't think the Devs will create fights based around DBM since console users will be unable to use it.

With that said, I personally view DBM as training wheels. Sure you still have to perform properly whenever a warning is given and yes, it can make raids more efficient for everyone involved (gotta make raids as easy and derp as possible to do it over and over again right?). I do view a difference between DBM telling me to move out of the fire and remembering when to move on each specific boss fight and their individual tells. DBM is just makes all of that into a universal warning, so to speak.

To use another example (and using a different genre), if I were to play against someone in a fighting game and I managed to land a hit, DBM would be tantamount to the game telling me which combo to do, displaying it neatly in my face. Sure, I would still personally need to do the combo but the game was dumbed down nonetheless. It is a tool, an effective tool because it does make things easier and allows you to turn a part of your brain off. Does it mean you are a bad player for using it? No. Just someone that wants to be more effective at the expense of more personal input.

[Jeronlmo]

No one goes into a fight without being told what to do unless they are the first ones to fight that boss - or its an easy boss.

Joined a raven party first thing that happened - two paragraphs of what to do if X happens. If not that there are always guides that get proliferated through chats and forums. Or in moogle fights there is always the shouter for moogle order so everyone attacks the same mog.

Its lovely to think hand holding is squashed without addons or is being done with addons. But its being done either way - at least this way you didnt have to type it yourself.

1 relies on human input, the other does not. You are not good/skilled/tallented, your bot is.

[Promethevs]

1 relies on human input, the other does not. You are not good/skilled/tallented, your bot is.

you are not good/skilled/talented, your combat log is. how silly does this sound?

[Levian]

I don't particularly demonize addons like DBM. Really what it did was allow you to focus on your cahracter a little more because (at least for the classes I played) there was a lot going on there with cool downs, DoT timers, pet bar/health/position, DPS rotation etc. Having something to make a noise to pull me out of my hunter/warlock DPS trance was a good thing.

If you have a personal vendetta against a DBM type mod, my advice? Don't use it. I played WoW for years add on free, even did a little raiding without it. A few times I got booted for not having DBM or some such nonsense, but after the first few I learned to lie. How the hell do they know what add ons you have and what ones you don't? They can't see your screen, and frankly it's none of their business, but if you having it makes them feel all warm & fuzzy inside, let em think you have it.

Edit: The one addon I really didn't like I think* was called Pally-power. It literally told you what button to push for your tanking and DPS rotations. Completely took out the need to think about what key to press, when, and why.