I wouldn't mind FFXIV becoming a WoW clone in the casual/hardcore appeal if...

[fusional]

once again with the "wow is in decline" argument.



so tell me more about this "obvious fact"? actually, how about this.



so let's do some more easy math that your rift team is so fond of. WoW tops out at 12 mil subs and drops to around 10.2. that's 1.8 mil subs lost. that's what- 15% or so? so WoW in complete freefall loses 15% of its subs over the course of about 2 years after it peaks.

now let's look at rift. peaks at 600k, loses 100k in the next month, then another 250k before the end of just a single year. that's roughtly 58-60% of its subscribers. in just a few months. and keep in mind, this is the team saying wow is dying, fading. saying it's going to keep taking subs from WoW.

so, sure. rift devs never actually used the phrase "wow killer" in reference to themselves. that came from the flailing fanboys. but they certainly went out of their way to market toward that, and reinforce the notion. and if you know anything about marketing (apparently you don't) that's difficult to deny.

in the end, it looks like WoW has the last laugh, no? even if the game is 'fading', it would appear their competitors are fading at a much more drastic rate

I, for one, do not double check anything I post, just to mess with people like you.

yyyyyeah, that's why. we all believe you. but protip: you maybe should double check *everything* you post. it doesn't mess with us, it just makes you look ridiculous.

and with that, i'm done feeding the trolls. have fun spending more time posting here than actually playing the game, i guess. may it bring you great pleasure.

[Kiote]

and with that, i'm done feeding the trolls. have fun spending more time posting here than actually playing the game, i guess. may it bring you great pleasure.

Yay, (s)he's finally gonna stfu!

[Inkie]

I actually kinda preferred Rift over WoW. For me, it looked and played better and I loved the open world dynamic PvE events. The problem is, which should be obvious, is I've played WoW for many many years, and I only started playing Rift for a few months beginning at launch. A WoW clone, even if designed better, isn't worth switching over too and seriously investing time in.. Rift was super fun at launch, tons of people, then of course as the hype dies servers get less and less crowded, and it goes back to feeling alot like WoW, just a little shinier and smoother. We are creatures of habit, and alot of people already put work into their WoW toons.. so if your going to do a WoW clone, chances of you "hooking" current/previous WoW players (who enjoyed WoW) is going to be pretty small. Doesn't take away from the fact that Rift is actually (imo) a better game. If only it had come out 7 years ago.. As gamers/consumers we really shouldn't pay any attention to those marketing "numbers".. and they are definelty useless in an arguement of "what game is better!?!". I suppose, if all things were equal (release date, global availability, cost, genre/style) then you maybe able to extrapolate something from them.. but since that is FAR from the case... ya.. they just silly numbers (unless you work for WoW...then ofc its OMGLOOKBIGNUMBERS!! Meh, its marketing.. what ya gonna do..)

[XxOstiaxX]

What gae flopped? RIft? You must not play it very much, I went back and was a little distracted about how pracked the realms have gotten again.

RIft had better dynamic content, as well as realativly bug free at beta.

After last log in (since you can play free to 20 on any chracter). The current realms have over 500k on at once) which is to many honestly. They however do not report non paid subs like BLizzard sdoes hince why the site you choose has incorrect data.

Rift is also not as casual as wow. Has my events, globally, randomly, and has a harder curve. TH UI is much more dynamic (check reviews). Jobs much more varied (more varied then wow by a large margin) and the battle sytem more complex.

There is alot that can be taken from RIft and other mmo's, wow would be the least reliable since it's source is so out dated.


If you rely on sub sites stats, you will miss out on real data, fun, and games. Typically in a realm, RIft is more balanced. Higher realms are to packed while they show which are the current most balanced so you don't make a bad decision.

One thing is certain Rift has more dynamic then WOW. BEign a fan boy of an outdated game doesn't make it a better game. Generally younger crowds flock to it becuase of hype, yet the adverage age of gamers on RIft and FFXIV are higher and of a more mature range.

If FFXIV becomes more like WOW, they will be going backwards and it will be pretty much finished.

ENdgame in wow wasn't hard. With the right groups it was easy to get your gear, add on slots, and max out. It was harder to get end game top gear in XI (well for awhile at least) . You had to spend endless months gettign the items to have it made, or endless runs for basic end game gear (not the better gear).

WOW bosses are nto dynamic. THe AI is very simplified, they had hudge pools of HP. SO basially you had to slap them down slowely. XI's AI was more advanced even if it was an older game. Mobs coudl counter common used moves. Silence mages when they get weak and healers are getting to ahead. Detect when WS were ready and be ready to counter. IT was smoroer based o elements, defense, spell defense, crackign it down, then takign the mob down.

TIME CONSUMING DOES NOT MEAN HARD! NOR DOES IT EQUATE TO IT!! FOR THE LOVE OF GOD!!!

[NefGP]

if your ENTIRE endgame resembles abyssea, people will find it unappealing and quit for the same reasons they did due to abyssea. just as if your ENTIRE endgame resembles RoZ ground kings people will find it unappealing and quit for the same reasons they did due to RoZ ground kings.

for the life of me i still can't understand this "well i like this one thing so everything in the game should resemble this one thing" mentality.

Who said everything had to resemble abyssea? I was just citing it as an example of good design - people getting what you'd expect for your time put in, and it has that nice random element to it of finding and striking weak points. They don't have to bring that particular mechanic back, that's not what I was going for - my point was again, that you reward players adequately for time-spent, instead of just cockblocking with ridiculous time sinks because you fail as a developer.

[kazaran]

There are so many captived by the follow the crowd gaming that they can not admit when a game has short comings "becuase their friends play it".

Their are gamers that jsut can't accept that. WOW was liek that for me. It was too simplistic, over ran by childis hgroups of people, and had little challenge through the end. IT doesn't matter how many play it becuase their friends are into the hype. Many seek an easy way out, that is human nature, but the few seek a true challenge.

Many went to play FFXI and complained it is too hard and too challenging. That was the number one complaint of WOW players.

I cna tell you wone thing that sites stats are so far off it is reducluous. If you go by quessed stats and claims, no matter how they try to back it, then you are blinded as well, their suister site is a wow site.

RIft took idea of wow (after all the peopl e who started trion include the creatos of WOW, and also heads of other mmo's, and a former Xbox live CEO. PErhaps if you played Rift long enough you would realize even for a recent game, it has more dynamic content. IT polished the MMO style. BEfore taking thigns from an outdated game of fans who can't move on, FFXIV would be better off takign it from games who are newer and have improved on i. REgardless of how many reported, yet still unactive, accounts Blizzard claims they have.

Log onto a HIGH pop wow server nw, Log onto a high pop RIft server now. Do a tally and see how there are on adverage a higher pop of rift (they handle more total). With there free content and upcomign large expasnion, the game is doign better then wow did it's first 2 years.

GW2 will have a rush of people, then a decline as well. Yet perhaps they will not report inactive accounts like blizzard does.

[kazaran]

Now yes drop rates are a tad rediculous right now, but when it comes to fights, plain and simple XI's and XIV's are more dynamic and challenging. It is wow who has AI with the intellegence of Texas instrument calculator from the 80's, THeir solution is to through in rediculous amounts of HP and random triggered actions. IF you understand how the databases work, you know that.

Taking gear achievements from various MMO's is a better choice, not just wow's simplified approach. It would ruin the challenge, and a balance is needed.

If you follwo a crowd based on numbers, you will be left behidn in outdated titles.

Even a majority of WOW players are looking for somethign new rather then sittign aroudn bull talking all day becuase they are bored.

Wow subscriptions started a decline in 2011 once again, To lock in players they offered Diablo 3 free for a year commitment. Stocks shown across new as declining. Yet one site shows an increase in accounts? ODD humm.

If you want wow play wow. FF fans don't want wow. Simple as that.

We don't care how many subscribers there are on WOW. We are blidn sheep following a flock. We want an actual story. A better community.

We want Ai that isn't simply a matter of beatign high HP down with AI that iisn't very dynamic (WOW).

OR drop rates so easy everyone gets geared fast as logn as they progress evenly. We don't want to current reduculosu rates either but a balance.

If FFXIV becomes to much like wow, it will become a mediocre game like WOW and there will be no need to change. IT has to be different, like XI was. Continue the story like FF is about. Enough familiar for new subscribers of other games, but remain true.

XI was harcore face it, and the "It's too hard" complaint even at lower levels was the number one complaint we heard from WOW only players. Eventaully XI was made easier. THen declined as a result to please those complainers.

[XxOstiaxX]

Wow subs decline in the eve of a new expansion, every single time, this is not the first time it has happened, it happened in BC, and in WOTLK and now in CATA, i still cannot understand why people are all surprised.....

[Gokulo]

but when it comes to fights, plain and simple XI's and XIV's are more dynamic and challenging.

I want a ticket to that universe

[kazaran]

They get boosts at new content and dive before hand... but wow's been in decline fo r some time. Check out stock reports.

Wow is old. It's out dated. BLizzard needs new. THey are draggign people and it's outdated engine out as long as they can and fans blindly givve in with their over priced exapnsions with limited improvements. Cataclysm was MEH at best. Other then soem minor tweaks, it's still old looking.

A new MMO needs to be new. Not based on old engines, old style, and over played , lack luster quests. XIV needs to build on that a tad itself, but has more story behind it. They made it a bit too easy to do to be like old mmo's.

A wow close would be the end of the game, cloning old tech is poor choices. Usingn familiar aspects can help the transition. I don't want a simple minded game like wow with repetitive quests in small areas, with instnaces thrown in. I want stories that are shown and told with meaning. Something WOW always lacked.