I wouldn't mind FFXIV becoming a WoW clone in the casual/hardcore appeal if...

[Laraul]

Drop the endgame debate. FFXI and WoW both have some very difficult endgame. What separates the two is prior to endgame. FFXI is far less forgiving at getting to endgame then WoW is. It forces players to group to level, soloing isn't viable (with the exception of one class out of twenty). Death is far more dire prior to endgame in FFXI than WoW. You not only loose time, but a exp and possibly a level too. And deleveling renders any gear at your prior level unusable. The reason why FFXI only has half a million subscribers to WoW twelve million is in part because it was so brutal to new players.

[XxOstiaxX]

Drop the endgame debate. FFXI and WoW both have some very difficult endgame. What separates the two is prior to endgame. FFXI is far less forgiving at getting to endgame then WoW is. It forces players to group to level, soloing isn't viable (with the exception of one class out of twenty). Death is far more dire prior to endgame in FFXI than WoW. You not only loose time, but a exp and possibly a level too. And deleveling renders any gear at your prior level unusable. The reason why FFXI only has half a million subscribers to WoW twelve million is in part because it was so brutal to new players.

It was the lack of options, and the heavy focus on naked grinding......

[Kiote]

It was the lack of options, and the heavy focus on naked grinding......

Actually, it was the willingness of the Development team to not sacrifice Solid Gameplay Mechanics and Lasting Content for the sake of Catering to casual players.

FFXI fans actually enjoyed doing HNMs a hundred times and Running Up 100 Floors of Nyzul Island because when you finally got it done, it felt like you did something. You didn't just win and forget it until the next raid in three months where you replaced all the Top Tier gear you worked so hard to obtain.

FFXI was the last of the Unforgiving Hardcore MMOs. Most people didn't give up on it until they gave in to the Casual Playerbase which they never actually needed.

[XxOstiaxX]

Actually, it was the willingness of the Development team to not sacrifice Solid Gameplay Mechanics and Lasting Content for the sake of Catering to casual players.

FFXI fans actually enjoyed doing HNMs a hundred times and Running Up 100 Floors of Nyzul Island because when you finally got it done, it felt like you did something. You didn't just win and forget it until the next raid in three months where you replaced all the Top Tier gear you worked so hard to obtain.

FFXI was the last of the Unforgiving Hardcore MMOs. Most people didn't give up on it until they gave in to the Casual Playerbase which they never actually needed.

Stop taking things out of your ass, first XI developers did not "Willingly" ignore the casual market, for there was NONE! *Gasp* XI was the successor of Everquest, it was a game meant to attract the same type of player, since it had the same type of mechanics, don't pretend like they went into a meting and said: "Well there is a huge casual market that has not been tapped, but we shall ignore it, because we want to deliver unforgiving mechanics and keep with the times."

Because that was not what happened.

[Kiote]

Stop taking things out of your ass, first XI developers did not "Willingly" ignore the casual market, for there was NONE! *Gasp* XI was the successor of Everquest, it was a game meant to attract the same type of player, since it had the same type of mechanics, don't pretend like they went into a meting and said: "Well there is a huge casual market that has not been tapped, but we shall ignore it, because we want to deliver unforgiving mechanics and keep with the times."

Because that was not what happened.

Apparently you have no Idea what your talking about..

There were more than 3 MMO ever made man. FFXI is nothing like Everquest. They literally do not share a single mechanic.

There has always been a casual player base, the difference now is that WoW showed the world how big it can be when you make the easiest game on earth.

Prior to that, Devs did not care about casuals because they didn;'t expect them to pay to play.

[Reiterpallasch]

Drop the endgame debate. FFXI and WoW both have some very difficult endgame. What separates the two is prior to endgame. FFXI is far less forgiving at getting to endgame then WoW is. It forces players to group to level, soloing isn't viable (with the exception of one class out of twenty)

Actually, that might have been true a couple years ago, but it's far from it now.

Of these two games, guess which one lets you hit the level cap in a day or two while completely afk.