They should put actual MMO players on the development team.

[Mijin]

Travel to Japan... drop in your resume. Good Luck.

Thanks for the offer but I'll have to pass.

A: You are just trying to get a job.
R: First of all I'm not stupid enough to think that they would ever read this thread. Second of all I already have a job, and I don't speak Japanese. So don't patronize me tyvm. I just want future content not to be idiotic.

[Viritess]

I won't say much on the pluses or minues of this particular point. But i'll bring up that Eve-online tried something similar with a voted in concil that would have the "ear" of the developers, so to speak. Which in essence is aking to the OP's point, however they we're not staffers persay. This group was flown to CCP's HQ once a year for meetings and the like.

Their effectiveness was debatable. While at times this group was good at centering around the community's issues, i'd expect it would be very difficult to exclude certain biases when drawing from a playerbase that is already within the game. Also drawing Gamers from other games that have certain gaming tastes and experiences in other MMOs but may lack certain professional qualities needed during development may hinder more then help a game company when attempting something different.

You'd have to expect alot of what "payed players" we'll call them would get would be rough, basic content early in development. Pre-Alpha so to speak. Otherwise i doubt there would be much advantage to prospect then having a Beta test server for each patch (a service i highly support infact. Its excellent to have Patches broken by the playerbase before general release.)

I think the main issue is not programming knowlage. But game development knowlage and impartiality. How a game gets developed and how not to attempt to influence things in a particular direction because a game you liked once did it that way, i think would be a concern for a game company.

So i think the question to pose would be, what qualifications should a "Payed Played" have for a company to give serious thought on the option? Game development Theory? Programming background? Writing Degree? Or just a passion for MMOs/Games? All of the above? Thats the real question.

And finally i'll bring up a Arena Net. Despite whatever side you land on for GW2 interest. They have commented that they often stop their employes from working, have them gather up and they all play the new content and see if they enjoy it. Is it fun? Was it interesting? etc.

I think as an outsider, Arena Net is taking a quality step in Game Development. In a group of 100+ employees, all with different tastes, your likely to have atleast an element of what the OP is speaking off. Their main bias being, they want their game to be AWESOME. Whish i think is a positive slant to have ^^

[Aion]

nice...I had a question and your respond is about my language...

[Aion]

R: The community reps aren't enough. The quality assurance team tests for bugs and stuff like that. They have nothing to do with deciding if content will be fun or successful. The forums aren't a reliable source for a number of reasons. The forums are filled with trolls, and because so few XIV players post here things can get very clicky. Very few of the player base posts here, and of them that do post many are inexperienced with MMOs themselves. Trolls go on feeding frenzies with people who make suggestions, most people don't even bother. Who really knows how much information that the community reps hand pick on the English forums actually make it to those in charge in Japan anyway?

by the way, do you say a few EXPERT MMO player will able to tell this game will be fun or not for all people? will make all people happy?

[Viritess]

by the way, do you say, a few EXPERT MMO player will able to tell this game fill be fun or not for all people?

That would depend on the definition of EXPERT. Really good at 1 game? Played alot of games? etc. But i don't think tossing labels like "expert" would help the discussion. (not that you did or anyone else is being exclusionary/elitist, its just not the best topic to move the discussion to actual brainstorming.)

I think fun is all perspective. What i think a Payed player we're discussion would have to instead of thinking "is it really fun for me!" would be "i'm not too sure if i find this fun, but i don't dread the idea of doing it X amount of times with people who may like it." Just to give a general mindset that in my opinion, would be broader then a "MY" fun meter.

[Mijin]

nice...I had a question and your respond is about my language...

Well sorry, I thought you were asking a rhetorical question to insult my opinion. I didn't realize you were being literal. Usually if people have a serious question they don't start by telling the OP that they didn't bother to read their post.

by the way, do you say a few EXPERT MMO player will able to tell this game will be fun or not for all people? will make all people happy?

To answer your question, no I do not. I feel it is still fundamentally the development teams task to make the game, and to make the game enjoyable for all players. It is my belief however, that a panel of players would be able to prevent the design team from making bad decisions in their content.

Here's an example for you. When Garuda first came out it was easily exploited by killing her before she could use her big attack. If a panel of experienced players were given time to test the Garuda fight before it was released they would have easily been able to point out the flaw, and it would have happened.

[Aion]

That would depend on the definition of EXPERT. Really good at 1 game? Played alot of games? etc. But i don't think tossing labels like "expert" would help the discussion. (not that you did or anyone else is being exclusionary/elitist, its just not the best topic to move the discussion to actual brainstorming.)

I think fun is all perspective. What i think a Payed player we're discussion would have to instead of thinking "is it really fun for me!" would be "i'm not too sure if i find this fun, but i don't dread the idea of doing it X amount of times with people who may like it." Just to give a general mindset that in my opinion, would be broader then a "MY" fun meter.

thats why Im against the idea, we already have closed/open beta stage. And also for the moment developers get our feedback from the forum/polls. Previous mistake that was done by SE by not listening the player's feedback during beta.

Beside that, based on thread title, who does qualify as "actual MMO player" ? just like you said, does it someone that play a lot of MMO? have a high playtime? or do they understand on game mechanics, balance aspect? demography of players?

[Mijin]

So i think the question to pose would be, what qualifications should a "Payed Played" have for a company to give serious thought on the option? Game development Theory? Programming background? Writing Degree? Or just a passion for MMOs/Games? All of the above? Thats the real question.

Good point. In my opinion the hypothetical payed-players should be as possible, but even more importantly have a passion for MMOs. I don't know what kind of graduate programs they have in the game design field, but a masters or better in that field would obviously be preferable. However, regrettably when it comes to picking the MMO players from FFXIV they would be more limited as there would be less players to choose from.

[Mijin]

thats why Im against the idea, we already have closed/open beta stage. And also for the moment developers get our feedback from the forum/polls. Previous mistake that was done by SE by not listening the player's feedback during beta.

Beside that, based on thread title, who does qualify as "actual MMO player" ? just like you said, does it someone that play a lot of MMO? have a high playtime? or do they understand on game mechanics, balance aspect? demography of players?

There is closed/open beta for what? 2.0? Or are you reffing to the fact that this game has been in beta since 2010 lol. open beta for 2.0 is nice but imo there needs to be open beta for every patch, just like the competitors have.
Feedback from the forums just isn't enough. Only a small portion of the players post here, and it's too possible to be subjective when you're reading someone else's opinion. Polls are nice, but we don't have votes as nearly as much as a lot of people would like, and when we do it's often on insignificant subjects. In the polls we are usually given a few choices to decide from, there really isn't much freedom of choice.

I consider someone who has spent a considerable amount of time on at least one title to be a real MMO player. If your looking for a specific answer Lets say 70-100days of actual logged on non-afk play time, that would be your more casual player. Less than that would just be like what we call a noob I guess. Anyone with a considerable amount of time on more than one title and at least 365 days of actual logged in play time at they keyboard and over 5 years experience playing MMOs would me the more hard core. Any more that that would be the elite.

[Viritess]

Can't agree with this point. How much a person may play, or be able to play currently doesn't equate their past or education. Be it loss of past job, personal injury, handicap etc. I personally refuse to label any person as a particular group due to the time they can or can't spend on anything.

(I may sound a little mean there, not my intention, i just don't think such comments are helpful, and i certainly think they can be hurtful. In effect you are degrading others, even if that was not at all your intent)