Will DRG and PLD still be next to useless in 2.0?

[Crimzon]

Is the OP serious or trolling? Honestly I cant tell.

We use DRG & PLD for LOTS of endgame things. DRG is honestly 100% the best DD in the game when it comes to anything that isnt a 2 minute burn.

There is no way any other job can come close to parsing what I can on DRG in an extended fight such as Ifrit-Extreme. They hold their own in battle with multiple enemies because of their AoE abilities and massive TP generation. The reason MNK is so widely used on a fight like Miser is because it is a 2 minute fight. Typically, a DRG isnt going into that fight under power surge III so of course a MNK is going to be the ideal choice.

The same can be said for BLM. In a burst-damage scenario...such as Princess/Coincounter where a BLM can just expend all of their MP because they know the fight isn't going to be any longer than 2 minutes, then DRG isn't going to outparse them in that situation. That somehow makes them useless?

In a fight like Garuda, Ifrit, Hamlet, Skirmish...etc where it is an extended battle then DRG more than holds it's own as it is the TOP DD to take to those situations.

Caling it useless, is just announcing to these entire forums just how uninformed you are.

[Meatdawg]

When it comes to ifrit extreme, I'm going to have to stop you and say MNK can definitely reach higher damage to ifrit himself than a DRG. However it is true that DRG is far more superior against nails compared to MNK. Which is why if you pair a good MNK and a good DRG together, the parse usually tends to be around the same since the gain on one side and the loss of the other equals it out.

I used to do mnk on our first runs and was always high on the dps parse but never above the drg. With all things being equal I think the drg still wins (not counting nails). PS3 does more then FoW in the long haul. There are better mnk players out there then myself and I would love to compare some parse numbers if anyone has ifrit ex winning parses.

[Meatdawg]

@Meatdawg have you guys managed to do 17 minute speed runs with melee DDs? I'm just curious since you guys are some of the better players on the server. My LS doesn't get to play too often and we are still on the Hamlet Defense phase, after deciding that running without anyone in 1st or 2nd is a waste of time. Very few of our members actually have BLM leveled up and it would be great to not need it since we're all pretty good players. I figure it would mostly revolve around using Invigorate early so when you get to "stopping points" where you gotta AOE your TP is ready. Bosses should be no issue with a group that knows what they are doing.



It's more a matter of "there's really not much to be done with the waist slot" for mages. Militia belt never comes off my WHM, though.

We don't use drg's on either simply because so many of us job swap to speed up the runs. Ideally you want the drg to be able to maintain PS3. Miser dies in less then 2 min so it's much easier to throw mnks at it. BLM's are used to speed up the runs by aoe everything.

I have seen other LS use drg in their speed runs so I know it can be done but for use we just had something that was already working so no real need to change it up.

[Dawiichan]

I used to do mnk on our first runs and was always high on the dps parse but never above the drg. With all things being equal I think the drg still wins (not counting nails). PS3 does more then FoW in the long haul. There are better mnk players out there then myself and I would love to compare some parse numbers if anyone has ifrit ex winning parses.

FoW isn't grasped by most people on how well it can be used though. PS3 increases atk power which makes DRGs do more dmg, yet atk power shows a bigger difference on AA than on WS. So while my AA go to around 70 on mnk, a DRG can do around 90 with PS3. However when you get a CDR of 30% and mov speed bonus, a monk can push damage so much more on ifrit that a DRG can if they don't do anything too reckless. That and the fact that FoW would be more effective on skills than PS3 is on skills. Sadly I don't have any winning parses saved onto my computer and we probably wont have anyone that far in the quest again for a few days since we just finished getting all 11 people their first relic yesterday.

[Estellios]

We don't use drg's on either simply because so many of us job swap to speed up the runs. Ideally you want the drg to be able to maintain PS3. Miser dies in less then 2 min so it's much easier to throw mnks at it. BLM's are used to speed up the runs by aoe everything.

I have seen other LS use drg in their speed runs so I know it can be done but for use we just had something that was already working so no real need to change it up.

Yea we figured Miser would be about killing her before she moves since without her adds she's fairly harmless.

My LS is excited to go try AV again now that we all have much better gear than before. Thanks for the info =)

[Hyrist]

I don't know how you've been getting by. Whenever I'm going DRG I go right into my first combo (Vorpal-Impulse-Keen Flurry/Hawkeye+Chaos Thrust) and I'm already yellow/borderline red. If yellow I go and do the front combo then pop Chameleon and go back to first combo.

I don't Keen Fury Chaos Thrust, for one.

In fights where you can maintain a consistant DPS cycle, Keen Fury on Doom Spike results in more Combo 3 WSes per rotation.

Chaos Thrust Combo + HE
Doom Spike Combo + KF, BS
Ring of Talons Combo + BfB
Doom Spike Combo

Using Quelling strike whenever available.

Depending on the fight I may have a Warrior available to Collusion me, preferably on Doom Spike.

I've no fear of using Elusive jump to pull down my hate as often as I can as well, and the open skill slot is occupied by Featherfoot, which is pretty nice to lower the damage on enemies with physical AoEs such as Darnus.

I will not lie and say I don't bite the dust more often than I would like to, especially in Pugs. I have to hold back in some cases.

[Req]

Yea we figured Miser would be about killing her before she moves since without her adds she's fairly harmless.

My LS is excited to go try AV again now that we all have much better gear than before. Thanks for the info =)

Too bad she likes to spawn the adds right on top of the party for the last 30%. Your whm better be ready to kite some hardys.

[TimonLoon]

I don't Keen Fury Chaos Thrust, for one.

In fights where you can maintain a consistant DPS cycle, Keen Fury on Doom Spike results in more Combo 3 WSes per rotation.

Chaos Thrust Combo + HE
Doom Spike Combo + KF, BS
Ring of Talons Combo + BfB
Doom Spike Combo

Using Quelling strike whenever available.

Depending on the fight I may have a Warrior available to Collusion me, preferably on Doom Spike.

I've no fear of using Elusive jump to pull down my hate as often as I can as well, and the open skill slot is occupied by Featherfoot, which is pretty nice to lower the damage on enemies with physical AoEs such as Darnus.

I will not lie and say I don't bite the dust more often than I would like to, especially in Pugs. I have to hold back in some cases.

This wasn't to question your rotation or mine. What I was trying to get across is how fast I get to being close to pulling hate. Which is how I'm not sure how you haven't gotten Chameleon yet. Elusive Jump cooldown is too long and the enmity reduction isn't worth (not to mention the DPS lost from moving away from the mob). I almost never use it (to shed hate) unless it's to avoid an AoE. lol

[Hyrist]

I find Elusive jump to be more effective the earlier you use it, so I'll hit it when I'm yellow to early red, and it'll typically drop me back down to Green. Easiest way to do this without harming DPS is position yourself so your jump slams you against the wall/arena border, forcing you to stay in melee range.

It'll take me the rest of the rotation to pull back into red afterwards, as the tank will have established their hate more firmly by that point.

Note, this is using AF feet for the added effect. (And the minor str boost as it puts me to cap.)

As far as how I've not gotten Chameleon yet. I'm working two jobs, playtime is heavily limited - so I swallow the difficulty managing hate in favor of pushing to get stuff done.

When I get Chamelion I'll likely be rotating the two skills to keep my hate low.

[Deathmask]

You mean MNK and DRG right? PLD is still a pretty decent tank and can be used anywhere. MNK and DRG in the other hand are pretty much gimp compared to Black Mage.

90% of the game events you will be asked to go as Black Mage for DD. That proves that something is wrong with this game.