Will DRG and PLD still be next to useless in 2.0?

[Mijin]

DRG's during Princess is beyond awesome, not to mention during Ifrit Extreme and Garuda herself. Again, this is more of a community issue than a developer issue. PLD and DRG technically work in all situations. Are they convenient? That is debatable in some situations, but they are definitely useable. PLD and DRG are designed well, it is just the fights themselves that leave them undesired, but not useless by any means.

For Princess I like to use BLMs here's a video that can kind of show you why I like this start:
FFXIV : A Relic Reborn - Cutter's Cry (16:10)
Princess Setup
2x War, 1x WHM, 1x BRD. 4x BLM

I haven't done Ifrit Extreme but MNK seems to really rip it up, no DRGs used here:
Ifrit Extreme Defeated

When my LS does Garuda they go with BLMs. I've been hearing on he forums that people sometimes use DRGs but until people mentioned it here in-game this is totally unheard of to me. Here's a video with some people using the same setup my LS uses:
Flawless Garuda Win

I have done nearly everything as dragoon (I haven't tried Ifrit extreme yet)
I dont feel useless (took a little longer on Chimera, but it's no big deal)

Yeah you're right the word "useless" is kind of overdoing it and maybe a little provocative. If I could edit the title I would change it to "Lackluster."

As it currently stands there are only a few niche boss encounters where WAR's are better utilized than PLD, and almost no conceivable situation that Monk is preferred over anything.

Sounds like your ls needs to start thinking outside the box.

That's and edgy opinion you've got there, why don't you explain it in a little more detail so I can see what I'm missing.

[Req]

For Princess I like to use BLMs here's a video that can kind of show you why I like this start:
FFXIV : A Relic Reborn - Cutter's Cry (16:10)
Princess Setup
2x War, 1x WHM, 1x BRD. 4x BLM

I haven't done Ifrit Extreme but MNK seems to really rip it up, no DRGs used here:
Ifrit Extreme Defeated

When my LS does Garuda they go with BLMs. I've been hearing on he forums that people sometimes use DRGs but until people mentioned it here in-game this is totally unheard of to me. Here's a video with some people using the same setup my LS uses:
Flawless Garuda Win

And here is why DRGs can also be used for cutters cry
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2lY0r...ure=plpp_video Using DRGs up to princess will not only allow princess to be burned down in like 90 seconds but it also allows the bard to save their battle voice for chimaera, giving the entire part double mp refresh for a large portion of the fight. A relic bard would be giving the entire party, including the paladin an insane mp refresh for the entirety of chimaera, making burning it down incredibly simple. Which would you rather have, use your battle voice to burn down an easy boss, or use your battle voice to burn down a boss that can one shot half the party from a distance? It doesnt sacrifice any time, as you can see compared to the video you posted we beat the instance just as fast, WITH someone disconnecting during chimaera.

Using a drg instead of a second warrior is way better for Garuda because you do more damage to garuda herself and it helps get the magic resistant clone down very quickly withotu sacrificing AoE damage for the plumes in the first phase.

As far as ifrit extreme goes, its all about personal preference, the big issue with using monks in it is that you absolutely need a bard or you will run out of mp. With Drg you can add an extra white mage to the battlefield making things easier, and while monk has higher spike damage, dragoons will end up doing 70-80 damage auto attacks once they get to power surge 3, compared to the 30ish a monk would do WITH fists of wind up. I would also like to point out that a monk has to cross class a weaponskill to take one of the horns down because their attacks do not incap either of ifrits horns. That weaponskill is from dragoon no less.

My opinion isn't "Edgy" it is based on experience from doing every instance hundreds of times.

[Mijin]

Wait if BLM = Easy mode wouldn't that insinuate that they make things easier because they're better?

^ This lol.

The only encounter in the game where PLD is better is Moogle Mog. And even that's arguable. PLD is in need of some serious buffs going into 2.0. The main problem with PLD is that it excels at virtually nothing. For almost every situation; WAR is better and deals more damage.

While I agree with a large portion of what you said I have to dissagree with this. I've always found WAR to be superior during moogles, even more so since they droped the TP cost on WW.
The only fights I can think of off hand that matter where PLD seems to be prefered are Ifrit Extreme and 17 min speed run Chimera.

And here is why DRGs can also be used for cutters cry
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2lY0r...ure=plpp_video

Yeah but it took the people in your DRG video 3 min it takes the people in my BLM video only 2.

Using a drg instead of a second warrior is way better for Garuda because you do more damage to garuda herself and it helps get the magic resistant clone down very quickly withotu sacrificing AoE damage for the plumes in the first phase.

Why bother killing the clones imo, just burn the boss.

My opinion isn't "Edgy" it is based on experience from doing every instance hundreds of times.

I've done them hunderades of times too, based on our XIVpads profiles we seem pretty on par with eachother. So it's not like I'm not equally informed.

[Req]

^ This lol.

While I agree with a large portion of what you said I have to dissagree with this. I've always found WAR to be superior during moogles, even more so since they droped the TP cost on WW.
The only fights I can think of off hand that matter where PLD seems to be prefered are Ifrit Extreme and 17 min speed run Chimera.

Yeah but it took the people in your DRG video 3 min it takes the people in my BLM video only 2.

Why bother killing the clones imo, just burn the boss.

I've done them hunderades of times too, based on our XIVpads profiles we seem pretty on par with eachother. So it's not like I'm not equally informed.

Um, because you have to kill all the clones because they will one shot the party if you don't? And you are kind of missing the big picture. We beat the instance just as fast as the people in your video did, with someone disconnecting. I would also like to point out that our marshall dies only 10 seconds behind the people using the black mage method, and this is one of our slower runs.

[Deathmask]

You mean MNK and DRG right? PLD is still a pretty decent tank and can be used anywhere. MNK and DRG in the other hand are pretty much gimp compared to Black Mage.

90% of the game events you will be asked to go as Black Mage for DD. That proves that something is wrong with this game.

[Xianghua]

You mean MNK and DRG right? PLD is still a pretty decent tank and can be used anywhere. MNK and DRG in the other hand are pretty much gimp compared to Black Mage.

90% of the game events you will be asked to go as Black Mage for DD. That proves that something is wrong with this game.

No that proves something is wrong with this community. Ever Job shines one way or another. Its not that MNK and DRG are gimp, Far from it actually. The problem is most of the community does not have the skill level to play mnk/drg effectively.

[stanleyyoung]

No that proves something is wrong with this community. Ever Job shines one way or another. Its not that MNK and DRG are gimp, Far from it actually. The problem is most of the community does not have the skill level to play mnk/drg effectively.

i agree also with this evey class/job does have its purpose along with its use. some classes/jobs are used more then others one: the current player community really conforms to a set stragedy for content which causes the problem where blm or war are only allowed or preferred! (aoe fest)

two: most ppl dont know how to effectiviely play pld, mnk, drg, bard so they resort to jobs like war and blm that are generally easier to pick up since they are more dominant anyhow. also they choose blm and war since they are in most demand anyways so why would a unskilled person lvl, gear up and try to play a class/job that requires alot more knowledge then blm and war.

three: most of the content we have now really leans towards war and blm (aoe fest), hopefully in 2.0 we will have balanced content that each class/job shines and thrives.

i would say that the only class/job that is gimped is gla/pld all others are pretty much decent and balanced. even when a skilled/experienced well geared gla/pld the player is still at a disadvantage compared to war since gla/pld needs to be reworked and fixed. (not trying to start a argurment between war vs pld but is pretty clear which has the upper hand).
(also dont wanna discredit the war or blm saying they dont require any skill to be played,so no need to get mad and riot).

[Amsai]

No that proves something is wrong with this community. Ever Job shines one way or another. Its not that MNK and DRG are gimp, Far from it actually. The problem is most of the community does not have the skill level to play mnk/drg effectively.

Really? Interesting..... While Technically you are right, arent we missing the bigger point?

The problem is most of the community does not have the skill level to play mnk/drg effectively. Lets examine this statement. You are probably right in your evaluation of the community and its melee skill. But doesnt this say more about the inherent problems with the game design than it does the community. Im not saying it shouldnt take some skill to play a class, but I dont really agree that it should take more skill to play one class over the other to such a large degree. Ultimately classes should be about the role you want to play and the flavor of that role. Sorry, but if enough people are complaining about an issue or are having problems, then its no longer just them being wrong.

To me this is like telling someone they have the choice to sit in 1 of 2 different chairs. The chairs seem similar and perform the same function. However, one has a tac built into the seat. You try out the first chair and its comfortable. You try the second chair and you immidiately are in pain and uncomfortable. You want to complain to the management, but then a small yet very vocal segment of the customers say that its fine as is and that you simply must develop the ability to bare it.

Now maybe 2.0 will change things due to the new engine and other things like no animation lock, but as it stands right now all I see when I fight in primal battles are miserable and dejected melee. And frankly I think its ridiculous for it to be this way. Some people were saying that if melee would just be played more often, and if people practiced then people wouldnt have a problem with melee in boss battles. I am horrified when I have to think of all the melee I have fought with against Coincounter. Soooo many melee deaths, all the while the ranged portion of the party just chillin. I have done the Coincounter fight easily a couple hundred times, and only had one melee (who was to be sure a badass DRG) survive the fight. This isnt a "it cant be done" argument, this is a "it shouldnt be so unreasonable" argument. Christ I know a dude that roles melee and like I mean ALWAYS dies durring Ifrit (for months). What do we tell this dude? Sorry you arent skilled enough to play a melee, go f*@& yourself? Hell naw! Just dont make such a large difference in needed skill between melee and ranged.

Maybe 2.0 will fix some issues between ranged and melee survivability, maybe not. Here are some possible solutions for 1.0 (or 2.0 if nothing changes):

1. Dont have a f@*&ing midboss that can spam one shots on melee (lol though it is funny to watch)

2. Toughen melee up a bit so they arent such wussies and can take a hit or 2 from the AoE madness (HPs/damage cut/whatever)

3. This isnt supposed to be true action combat (TERA), so wtf does our semi-ATB/turnbased-ish feeling battle flow include split second timing move or die boss mechanics (confused?)

4. Or hell just make it more resonable like with Van Darnus. Once the melee know what to look for I have not seen any of them fail to "get out of the fire".

[Velhart]

You mean MNK and DRG right? PLD is still a pretty decent tank and can be used anywhere. MNK and DRG in the other hand are pretty much gimp compared to Black Mage.

90% of the game events you will be asked to go as Black Mage for DD. That proves that something is wrong with this game.

BLM isn't more powerful, it is only more convenient. DRG and MNK can easily out damage a BLM as a BLM can out damage them. It really depends on skill and gear who triumphs. So in actuality, all three DPS are pretty balanced. It is the fights themselves that cause the feeling of "not balanced", which isn't even 100% true itself.

[fusional]

For Princess I like to use BLMs here's a video that can kind of show you why I like this start:
FFXIV : A Relic Reborn - Cutter's Cry (16:10)
Princess Setup
2x War, 1x WHM, 1x BRD. 4x BLM

I haven't done Ifrit Extreme but MNK seems to really rip it up, no DRGs used here:
Ifrit Extreme Defeated

we use drgs on princess and kill both princess and marshall in under 90 seconds. we also use drgs on ifrit extreme as you only lose a bit of single target dps on ifrit, don't have to manage MP, and gain an ENORMOUS amount of extra aoe dps for nails. (the LS you linked also uses primarily drgs now instead of monks)

and as people have already covered, paladin is a complete tank now and is preferable in most situations.