So the Skirmish weapon can be melded.

[Almalexia]

Hello WARs,

1) Considering that DPS change the cap for your WS dmg and considering that 0.01 DPS dont always have the same value (i mean the gain is not linear and we dont know what is the WS cap for each weapon), how can you compare weapons ? Have you counted a 350 str / 310 xxx for all weapons ? When i read the sheet, i feel like something is wrong with this part.

I direct you here for recent testing of damage calculations. There is a linear relationship, and the linearity extends to WS caps too. This would place Garuda weapons (about 41DPS) 6~9 points higher than Ifrit while relic (about 42DPS) are an estimated 9~12 points higher than Ifrit.

However, for the purpose of this spreadsheet, WS caps are irrelevant. The column for stats presuppose you are under the cap. You can read the author's commentary here on BG.

2) Considering that WS dmg are for most job the primary source of dmg, how can you say that this axe are better than garuda/lt weapons, when they both have a better "WS value" in your own sheet ?

According to the spreadsheet, the triple meld is better than Garuda in weighted value, which is a score for the potential of the weapon (combined AA and WS). Giantsgall having higher DMG, the AA score pushes it ahead of Garuda, all things considered--well, actually no. Not all things.

The author of the spreadsheet set the default appraisal for ACC lower than its probably worth. If you followed my link to BG, you'll notice the author determined the value of ACC as a function of ATK; more specifically, as an opportunity cost of ACC vs. ATK gear. The default is 55% actually 66%, going by the author's explanation (18ACC vs. 12ATK). I do not know why the data Molly posted is 55%.

I insist we use with a more generous appraisal--83 or even 100%--assuming the player is under 100% hit rate for the target. I reason that, without a solid formula measuring how hard we have to hit to overcome the number of times we miss, we ought to value ACC equally as ATK (personally, I would say it is more valuable!) with the only difference being ACC can cap while ATK practically cannot.

Luckily you can enter a custom percentage into the "Accuracy Value to AP" field in order to modify the weight of ACC. Remember also when you are in a party, ACC has additional value: 10% in light parties, 20% in full. The spreadsheet does not calculate this but it can be manually entered.

Consider also the chart does not factor TP gain into its weighted score. Garuda (3.9) has a 0.4s lead on Giantsgall (4.3) in terms of delay, which means you'll be at 1000TP+ 1.2s sooner with Garuda before Paeon/damage TP/Rampage is considered.

There is the elemental damage from Garuda/Ifrit, but I will grant that it is insignificant contribution to overall damage. Especially for WAR!

Now, with all things considered--I think--Garuda should retain its position at the top. Edit: Not counting relic.

Ultimately, though, you never gear for one slot. Gearing is a holistic endeavor if you want to do it right. This spreadsheet is a nice tool for a superficial and theoretical comparison of weapons, but it's no substitute for a parser, practical application and a little critical thinking.

[Churchill]

The only one of those I'd bother getting, personally, would be BLM and BRD. The bow is better than Ifrit's and you can easily throw a TIV DEX on it and swap to hands with 30-xx attack power. If your build was already capped for Ifrit's and you don't want to use seals on GC/while working on something better then the Skirmish bow is really good.

Same for the BLM staff, if you're an Electrum user with a single macc meld like me (lolblm) then it's a decent upgrade if you throw a TIV macc on it as well.

[Molly_Millions]

Aaaargh
Can someone explain to me Molly's numbers?!

I'm very bad at math and that table has horrible formatting

As far as overall dps, look at the number in the rightmost column. Depending on your other gear, skill rotations etc., your actual numbers might be different.

[Meatdawg]

Molly check out the updated sheet.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...Q1hHUEE#gid=23

Something to consider is the low stat caps.

For example with the Giantgall Spear the caps are 319/288 and with the Relic they are around 370/320.

You can use this theory to lower your str gear and raise more attack power gear for better dps.

[Izodius]

Molly check out the updated sheet.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...Q1hHUEE#gid=23

Something to consider is the low stat caps.

For example with the Giantgall Spear the caps are 319/288 and with the Relic they are around 370/320.

You can use this theory to lower your str gear and raise more attack power gear for better dps.

HELLO LODESTONE!!!!!! This is my sheet! Sorry it was a bit wonky to start, I wasn't nearly ready for it to be on Lodestone (was trying to get feedback on BG mostly).

I was inspired to make the sheet after I saw the "Which Axe?" thread. I started my work here: http://raspberryheaven.enjin.com/ and then moved over to BG for further feedback. I hadn't planned on going to Lodestone with it yet, but I should have figured it'd get there sooner rather than later.

The minute I realized it was on Lodestone I got back to work on it. I was hoping to get it closer to where it is now before letting more people see it. I got some help from Silvano on it, he brought up the idea of the stat caps and how they effect a weapon's true potential.

It's far from perfect but it's also WAY better than what we had before (nothing).

Primary and Secondary stats on the weapons themselves are calculated in the Character fields (which is why they weren't calculating on the sheet you originally saw) - it's only fair they are calculated there because their usefulness on a weapon is greatly determined by your current stats and where they are to the stat caps.

Again I used Kaeko, Seiken, and Silvano's testing in order to create these calculations. I was pretty confident in their testing because of both who they are, and the fact that their tests reinforce each other. They pretty much found the same things within decimal points of each other.

The only calculations I'm a little leary on are Crit Ap and Crit Rate - they're probably slightly undervalued at this point, but I don't think it really makes a huge difference given just how impactful wDPS and Attack Power are.

The stat caps on the weapons are just a bit off... (by that I mean usually only like a few points off AT MOST although ifrit weapons seem to be calculating a bit lower so I'll take another shot at them as a whole). they're calculated using a logrithmic equation based off of all the stat caps that I had available that were actually known / tested. There is no 1:1 or x:y for wDPS to Stat caps, it's a curve for both primary and secondary (it's such an odd curve in fact I am inclined to believe they are actually hidden stats on the weapon that are required to fall within a specific range on item creation). Regardless, they're close enough. I went with using a calculation for the stat caps instead of user entry because not many people know all the stat caps - suffice it to say they are close enough to be relevant - they're also probably as close as we can get to a calculation right now. They are likely have a slight factor by weapon type that I won't be able to add in as well. All that said, since they're on the same LOG they should still be mostly reflective of the weapon's value. I'll take another look at the stat cap calcs again tomorrow - in the mean time you can download the sheet and manually enter the stat caps on Sheet1 (the calc sheet that's hidden on googledocs).

Other sheet's I'm working on are Gear Comparison for Weapon Skill damage, Total Gear Comparison, and the STR vs Enmity spreadsheet. They're all pretty close to being done (again with some number's I don't feel 100% confident on for Crit AP and Crit Rate - both of those stats could use SERIOUS testing). I'll make a thread later in general introducing all of those sheets once I'm more confident in them.

If anyone has questions let me know - I think I got most of the bugs on them that popped up today.

And for reference, yes it's pretty much at stat cap:

Relic > Garuda > Lt. Weapon (/w AP) > Triple-Meld AP Skirmish > Lt. Weapon (w/o AP) / Ifrit > Sgt. Weapon / Double-Meld AP Skirmish > Moogle

That obviously changes if you are below the stat cap - the best weapon for YOU is going to be based on how high you can pump your stats - but the Skirmish weapons (as far as we can tell based off of other weapons stat caps) have very low stat caps based off of their wDPS.

Of course that only applies to Lance and Axe since they're the only two weapons that you can meld AP onto - everyone else pretty much gets the shaft on Skirmish weapons - their wDPS is just simply too low for them to be significant when Lt. Weapons are so easy to get and SO good.

Also fun fact - double melded Primary or Secondary stats on weapons are mostly horrible - except for when you're really far away from stat cap, then they're ok - but really mostly a HUGE waste of gil.

I think that makes for a pretty good first post ever.

[Molly_Millions]

Of course that only applies to Lance and Axe since they're the only two weapons that you can meld AP onto - everyone else pretty much gets the shaft on Skirmish weapons - their wDPS is just simply too low for them to be significant when Lt. Weapons are so easy to get and SO good.

Also fun fact - double melded Primary or Secondary stats on weapons are mostly horrible - except for when you're really far away from stat cap, then they're ok - but really mostly a HUGE waste of gil.

I think that makes for a pretty good first post ever.

Not so fast! You could easily swap a primary or secondary stat with attack power on your gloves rather than on the weapon itself. For the bow, you could go with triple melded attack power gloves, and a solid double or triple meld of DEX on the bow to both reach your caps and have a weapon that's 2nd only to a relic.

If we agree that what's important is the total of all your stats vs what you have on the rest of your gear separate from your weapon. We can see that it doesn't matter if you have attack power on your weapon or elsewhere. What matters is the combined total of your stats on all your gear, then the wDPS is applied to determine caps and actual damage output. When we look at it in this way we can see that in certain cases melding primary and secondary stats to a weapon is not a waste and actually could be the best way to go.

[AmyNeudaiz]

Not so fast! You could easily swap a primary or secondary stat with attack power on your gloves rather than on the weapon itself. For the bow, you could go with triple melded attack power gloves, and a solid double or triple meld of DEX on the bow to both reach your caps and have a weapon that's 2nd only to a relic.

If we agree that what's important is the total of all your stats vs what you have on the rest of your gear separate from your weapon. We can see that it doesn't matter if you have attack power on your weapon or elsewhere. What matters is the combined total of your stats on all your gear, then the wDPS is applied to determine caps and actual damage output. When we look at it in this way we can see that in certain cases melding primary and secondary stats to a weapon is not a waste and actually could be the best way to go.

And this is why I listen to Molly 99% of the time.
Stat caps aren't the only thing to look at.

[Molly_Millions]

So just to follow up, what that means is that for anyone who may have stacked a primary or secondary stat on their gloves for classes other than MRD and LNC, to have a chance to to make a really awesome skirmish weapon, it's gonna take a new pair of gloves too.

[Izodius]

So just to follow up, what that means is that for anyone who may have stacked a primary or secondary stat on their gloves for classes other than MRD and LNC, to have a chance to to make a really awesome skirmish weapon, it's gonna take a new pair of gloves too.

Oh Duh, I completely forgot about AP meld to gloves. Been working on the sheets so much that I was thinking strictly weapon.

[Kagato]

And this is why I listen to Molly 99% of the time.

Pretty much this. Molly is to the FFXIV WAR as Unctgtg is to the FFXI DRK.