Dear Paladins...

[Aceofspades]

/face palm... maybe its just another rager , i dont know and its getting old repeating myself because some flamer thinks he/she has an argument against me and feels it will some how validate their existance by atempting to discredit my own Ideals on how to play pld on this game.

Some facts about myself soo to maybe clearify just how OCD and detail oriented I am about ANYTHING I do:

I am a 15G in Army Aviation (air cav) I did not get my mos by any simple means. when graded on pass/fail tests in wich you normaly only get one chance to pass before you are forced to reclass, we are given a 1/64 of an inch grace in wich to get your mesurements down and actual fabrication on replacement parts/ sheet metal patches for these aircraft. It was intense and I enjoyed every minute of it. Parts that we get from manufactuers to put on these air craft dont even come that close in mesurement. I am not saying this to float my own boat, but to clear up any mis understanding of just how "dumb" I am.

As far as the mechanics of this game in comparison to the mathmatics involved in replicating parts for an aircraft, well to be honest, the game is childs play.

For the people who can comprehend what I am about to put out this SHOULD end this on going , and quite frankly, Ignorant debate.

1: Defense on the game works just fine. True that with boss fights the numbers dont seem to quite add up, making it seemingly worthless to add the def stat. If I may be soo bold as to assume that every mob, including boss mobs, have stats as well. I may be wrong, however I am pretty damn sure I am not, but VIT would be the counter part to STR and DEF the counter part to ATK, after the DLVL effect the numbers still matter. Obviously the higher the number you haver before the DLVL effect the higher the number you will have afterword. Again, this SHOULD be obvious but if CC has a STR of , and this is just a guess at best, 1000, and I go into the fight after dlvl with a vit of 300, I will certainly take far less damage then the person with 200 vit. same effect takes place with DEF and ATK. Altho I can not confirm this without a developer disclosing the information, I can say from my own experiance, both vit and def work , even in boss fights, and the more you stack the more stable you can tank bosses without avoiding attacks.

Now for HP. I do agree, and have always agreed that HP give a cushon for any tank in wich to fall back on in those "oh shit" moments, when there are no damage deflection abilities available. HOWEVER that is all it offers. And altho I do promote taking stress off your healers as a tank , It is almost universally understood that anytime the tank if going to get pounded on by an ability by the boss or mob, there is a good chance that the healer/s are already priming "cure bombs". IF the tank , up to that point, dosent need heals or needs very little in terms of heals , then the whm/s can easly cure bomb the tank with no to little fear of taking hate. aslo makes mp conservation much more easier. You can NOT take less damage by stacking HP or relying on the inconsitant and less the reliable act of dodging attacks. For the same reason I do not like "counter" I do not like counter, I also do not like using HP and evasive tatics as a defensive tank. Please let me explain

Subject A dose not evade ANYTHING, but build his tank to minimize damage it takes as much as possable. By not having to worry about avoiding as many attacks it can decisivly tank with and with more certainty know the outcome of the each fight.

Subject B stacks enmity and HP, and perfers to avoid attacks where possable. Even tho this is realitivly safe and can be done with some level of certainty, it is entirely impossable to say for sure weather or not an attack can or will be avoided. Removing all uncontrolable elements (lag, hardware,ect) Knowing exactly when the mob will proc an ability is not possable, making it all too passable to get caught in animation lock and be unprepaired for an ability hitting the tank. The HP buffer, if it hasnt already been used up due to higher damage because of less defensive stat stacking, will offer some saftey but dose add stress to the WHM/s as they know if subject B gets hit again by anything more then what they cured for, it is likely the tank dies.

back to the comparison to counter. Some offensive tanks use counter in debates as an arguement to strengthen their case for war tank having as good damage reduction means as a pld tank. This only proves to reveal the debater as "reaching" or being desprate to make a case or simply being ignorant to what they are talking about. As Blocking in a fight can be timed and can be counted on to a 100% certainty to happen (devine veild, ageious boon) counter , even in its best enviorment, can NOT. And it is that uncertainty that turns me away from counter, and evasive tatics. I will not say there is anything wrong with stacking enmity or HP as stats, but I would not recomend these two be on the top of your list for priority.

That is my basic case and point. Sure there are other aspects to this debate that I can adress but I am certain no one wants a full page post lol. besides I am just trying to cover the issues that are at hand.

I am also fairly certain there are some mis spellings in this , sorry again.

[DarthTaru]

Yes, and we also learned from Ifrit first and foremost that anticipation in battle is crucial to pretty much all twitch-based reactions in this game. A tank should not allow themselves to be action locked to the point of not being able to run away. In the event that one cannot run away, there isn't time to activate Divine veil or cast stoneskin on self, which imo, makes the argument of "just take it to the face" rather weak. It's the same on Chimera. You must avoid the vast majority of breath of the ram/dragon to have any chance of surviving the fight and/or keeping enmity away from the WHMs. Taking 100 tonze here and there is fine, but to purposely stand there and take it several times in succession is never a best course of action (based on duration of abilities, enmity managements, and several other micro-factors that add up). That's it.

I straight tank Coin and ability mitigate all of his 100 ton swings and never bother running away from it and we clear Aurum Vale in 16 minutes w/ 5 chests. Go figure.

[Aceofspades]

Ace was not stat related I got lucky with outmaneuver

basically, as i stated before I can successfully survive 100T with divine viel blocks.

SO the first 2 where divine viel and whm and me curing

then I aegis boon the 3rd

sentinel the fourth

and the last 2 where lucky outmaneuver procs

However If I had hallowed ground I reckon I could probably guaranteeing two more rather than rely on luck but I was saving HG for miser.

I straight tank Coin and ability mitigate all of his 100 ton swings and never bother running away from it and we clear Aurum Vale in 16 minutes w/ 5 chests. Go figure.

oh , somthing i meant to cover as well, and Im sure you can conqure. While your running from an attack and your DDs are still attacking , that is hate gain on the dd each time you stop to run. being able to cycle through abilities wisley is and advantage that should not be taken lightly.

[GreyJorildyn]

I straight tank Coin and ability mitigate all of his 100 ton swings and never bother running away from it and we clear Aurum Vale in 16 minutes w/ 5 chests. Go figure.

That's great, but it's also not using it 6-7 times per battle like Ace's groups are, so the risk vs. reward for speed is totally different in your runs than in his. I don't exactly run from them all either but I think we know how different killing CC in 50s is compared to 2minutes. It still is never a "best course of action" in all scenarios. That was all I was saying

[DarthTaru]

/10char

[Alerith]

Finally got my hand in on tanking Coincounter. I honestly only have one real question:

Why do WHMs freak out so badly when a PLD is tanking? >_>

My WHM asked me NOT to eat a 100 Tonz Swing with Sentinel or Aegis Boon. I couldn't get a straight answer as to why...

[Chardrizard]

He probably wants you to evade, if you can take no damage why do you want to purposely take it. Saves boon for that moment u cant evade to saves your life. Ppl hate if you take unneccesarry damage.

[SwordCoheir]

Finally got my hand in on tanking Coincounter. I honestly only have one real question:

Why do WHMs freak out so badly when a PLD is tanking? >_>

My WHM asked me NOT to eat a 100 Tonz Swing with Sentinel or Aegis Boon. I couldn't get a straight answer as to why...

Probably because 100-Tonze Swing can one shot a PLD if he's not careful. In the offchance a PLD does survive eating an unmitigated 100-Tonze Swing, and since WHM's can't cap out your HP with a single Cura you could be in big trouble if he decides to follow up with another 100-Tonze Swing/Swipe.

You wouldn't believe how stressful it is for WHM's to heal tanks that can be over-confident or cocky regardless of either player's skill simply due to the chance of the tank being one shotted.

[Aceofspades]

Hmm valid points, If you can not take an unmitigated 100 tonze and survive with at least yellow health, you probably shouldnt. that being said, there is no reason as to why you cant mitigate at least 2-3 100t in a row without whm support, add stone skin to the equation that gives the tank 4-5 (with whm support) that he can take mitigated. I have not seen that many 100t swings in a row however. but yes if you can not do it, then dont, but that dosent mean it can not be done as it obviously is currently being done.

[Darkillumina]

I really don't see why people are debating eating or dodging his swings. When he falls your party gets 5 seconds of free DPS without any chance of Animal Instinct. In addition you can set up a nice combo on him without risking him turning around and hitting the party with a swipe. You just have so many options when he falls I can't see any reason to eat a swing.

Regardless, I prefer to tank Coincounter as a Warrior due to the combo capabilities and initial hate burst which makes the fight go fast. Even if he starts cheesing with multiple AI you have plenty of tools to regain hate. In addition if you are pro at dodging all his attacks you can gear more for damage and make the fight go even faster. PLD works fine though but since I don't want to waste the minute switching and waiting for cool-downs I just roll with Warrior throughout AV. I do highly recommend using PLD on Chimera. DPS will outshine a warrior on this fight due to the mechanics of spirits within. Regardless, apples and oranges.

For those having trouble on Coincounter here is a very helpful positioning tip that makes the whole fight a breeze. Stand right underneath his groin (so he's basically t-bagging you). By doing this you can avoid Swipe/Glower by literally moving 3 steps forward and then moving right back. The attack will look like it's cutting through you but due to the nature of latency in this game the attacks will not connect. In addition it makes avoiding a swing easy as pie. If you are running as a PLD you can even use the extra time you get from making him fall down from swing by using rampart on the whole party before he gets back up.