What can SE learn from Bioware's failing Star Wars MMO?

[Antipika]

TOR was pretty crappy lol. I was max lvl on 2 characters b4 the free trial even ended.

You're just as bad as people saying XIV sucks after completing one leve.

You may like or not like a game, but at least make an effort to try and distinguish something that is "crappy" and something that "you don't like". SWTOR is not "crappy". It has downsides, but a lot of good parts as well. We are still talking about over a million subscribers (unless someone prove with a trusted source that there is less)...

[Celia]

You're just as bad as people saying XIV sucks after completing one leve.

You may like or not like a game, but at least make an effort to try and distinguish something that is "crappy" and something that "you don't like". SWTOR is not "crappy". It has downsides, but a lot of good parts as well. We are still talking about over a million subscribers (unless someone prove with a trusted source that there is less)...

There is a significant difference between having two character as max level and completing one levequest.

[Antipika]

There is a significant difference between having two character as max level and completing one levequest.

>b4 the free trial even ended.

And how is that different from experiencing the game? It's like getting PL'd in XIV from 1 to 50 and say "lol XIV, I got 50 before my free trial was over and the game sux"...

Unless Bioware made massive changes regarding leveling, I started playing back in december when the game started, getting level 50 took "some" time (provided that you were doing quests and actually reading the text). So twice 1>50 in less than 30 days mean that little to no content was played the way it should have been played (i.e. reading text, going through certain areas etc.). I won't even talk about anything end-game related.

Also if you level not one, but two characters to 50 in less than 30 days, without PL/help, it means that you played hardcore for a bit and that you at least *slightly* enjoyed the game (or have serious issues for playing something you really hate).

[Eekiki]

Also if you level not one, but two characters to 50 in less than 30 days, without PL/help, it means that you played hardcore for a bit and that you at least *slightly* enjoyed the game (or have serious issues for playing something you really hate).

Well, I haven't met a person yet that truly enjoys level grinding. It's accepted by most MMORPG veterans that "the real game begins at the level cap", so many people rush to get there as quickly as possible.

[Asiaine]

Well, I haven't met a person yet that truly enjoys level grinding. It's accepted by most MMORPG veterans that "the real game begins at the level cap", so many people rush to get there as quickly as possible.

*wavies* hello. I enjoy a bit of the 'grinding' xp, as it's a great way to chat with people in XP parties and perfect some of the finer aspects of your job. Although I am thinking mostly of FFXI pre-COP era XP.

[DNO]

*wavies* hello. I enjoy a bit of the 'grinding' xp, as it's a great way to chat with people in XP parties and perfect some of the finer aspects of your job. Although I am thinking mostly of FFXI pre-COP era XP.

If anybody thinks beating a crab 1 million times trains you for primal battles, and other endgame content then they are silly. Doing actual endgame content is the best an only way to get good at it.

[Murugan]

If anybody thinks beating a crab 1 million times trains you for primal battles, and other endgame content then they are silly. Doing actual endgame content is the best an only way to get good at it.

It teaches you to hold aggro as a tank, deal efficient damage as a DD, and heal a party as a healer. These are all things that your average player does not do as well as they could(should). So yes it does train you to do endgame content, and since MMO's have moved away from the party-leveling model the quality of your average player at cap has dropped significantly.

I'd take a person who truly knew how to play their role in a group for endgame content over someone with ten million hours logged dodging magma and other ridiculous gimmicks in WoW or FFXIV any day.

[Elexia]

If anybody thinks beating a crab 1 million times trains you for primal battles, and other endgame content then they are silly. Doing actual endgame content is the best an only way to get good at it.

Because doing levequests and sitting around getting powerleveled trained you for Primal battles and AV, right?

[Taika]

*wavies* hello. I enjoy a bit of the 'grinding' xp, as it's a great way to chat with people in XP parties and perfect some of the finer aspects of your job. Although I am thinking mostly of FFXI pre-COP era XP.

I'm with Shayla here, I do enjoy leveling up my job(s) to cap, and I'd prefer if it would take me some time. For me it's about the journey, not in a hurry to get to the end of it.

I think that's one of the issues I have with the "modern day MMORPG(-player)s": people think the "real game" is the instanced end game content, not exploring the world (or just being part of it) and having spontaneous adventures.

[Eekiki]

I'm with Shayla here, I do enjoy leveling up my job(s) to cap, and I'd prefer if it would take me some time. For me it's about the journey, not in a hurry to get to the end of it.

I think that's one of the issues I have with the "modern day MMORPG(-player)s": people think the "real game" is the instanced end game content, not exploring the world (or just being part of it) and having spontaneous adventures.

Yes, yes. This is the point I was trying to make. Those people that rushed to 50 in SWTOR skipped all that story because "It's all about endgame" these days.

Take a look at history, early FFXI and WoW had no endgame...for quite awhile, in fact. For over a year, FFXI's "endgame" was the Shadow Lord, a battle that yielded no drops. WoW had Blackrock Spire, which was considered endgame merely because it was the highest level instance. There was no Dynamis, no Icecrown. Yet they succeeded because the grind was more than just a grind back then. You were exploring the world, meeting other players, building a community.

That last bit has actually proven to be detrimental to XIV, because a lot of us have played XI, and most of us have stayed with our LS mates from Vana'diel. This has caused some fragmentation in the community, since many LSs had exclusive membership. We're slowly recovering from that, though.