Yoshida-san: Please Give Us a BETTER System for Relics and Future 2.0 Challenges!

[Chardrizard]

I have not done any speed runs of the new dungeons, I hardly play them personally. I assumed that aside the forced encounters people did the same thing as Darkhold and skipped as much as possible.

Nope, you are forced to kill like 3/4 of the mobs there to move forward

[Murugan]

Nope, you are forced to kill like 3/4 of the mobs there to move forward

You are forced to kill certain mobs. I don't really think it is quite 3/4ths in AV, CC maybe but its not like they are even proper trash when many of them are killed in one round of AOE.

Also skill I don't know... its still all about efficiency from the moment you enter. Even though people may blow through the bosses due to their skills at their jobs basic role, in the end the majority of that 17 minutes amounts to a race through a dungeon we've all done a hundred times with characters who all run at a set speed, there is no real skill or talent involved you can't run faster or punt lalafells with such precision that they land on the portals just perfectly. You can just run a precise route that is the fastest route from point A to B, with as little interruption as possible.

Efficiency is definitely a skill, it just isn't the skill I'd personally choose to continuously hold above all others when playing a video game for fun.

I'd rather our reaction, or more complex demands on a group's ability to work as a team be tested through endgame content.

Enjoyment> Efficiency, and first kills are always more meaningful than fastest farm kills. SE needs to get endgame back on track and provide us with a more enjoyable experience filled with memorable moments (great saves, last stands, caught off guard...backs against the wall, against all odds type moments) rather than monotony and stop watches. Which is all they have given us in dungeons so far unfortunately

[Chardrizard]

You are forced to kill certain mobs. I don't really think it is quite 3/4ths in AV, CC maybe but its not like they are even proper trash when many of them are killed in one round of AOE.

Also skill I don't know... its still all about efficiency from the moment you enter. Even though people may blow through the bosses due to their skills at their jobs basic role, in the end the majority of that 17 minutes amounts to a race through a dungeon we've all done a hundred times with characters who all run at a set speed. That's not really being skilled at anything but efficiency. Efficiency is definitely a skill, it just isn't the skill I'd personally choose to continuously hold above all others when playing a video game for fun.

I'd rather our reaction, or more complex demands on a group's ability to work as a team be tested.

Enjoyment> Efficiency, and first kills are always more meaningful than fastest farm kills. SE needs to get endgame back on track and provide us with a more enjoyable experience filled with memorable moments rather than monotony and stop watches.

I guess thats why i dont really mind speedruns because playing with efficient people is my enjoyment! need full darklight unnff...

[Murugan]

I guess thats why i dont really mind speedruns because playing with efficient people is my enjoyment! need full darklight unnff...

I enjoy playing with skilled people, who know their roles. But I'm not so anal retentive that I get kicks from being timed from the moment I enter a dungeon. Do you time yourself doing household chores for fun as well?

Give us rage timers on bosses, hell give us a hallway or a puzzle that we have to figure out in a limited amount of time. Just enough with the clock on every mundane detail of the dungeon...

I'm not a huge cutscene person, especially after I've seen them a hundred times, but what a waste those are. They are actually a hindrance to speed runs. What a scandalous exploit it would be if someone could figure out how to remove them and regain those precious 10-15 seconds lost at the start of every fight. How fast a person can exit a cut scene is I think more important than the difference between someone wearing darklight or not (in terms of seconds saved). People may actually be better served focusing on improving their cutscene exiting skills, rather than farming the rarest drops in the dungeons.

[Kiara]

You are forced to kill certain mobs. I don't really think it is quite 3/4ths in AV, CC maybe but its not like they are even proper trash when many of them are killed in one round of AOE.

Also skill I don't know... its still all about efficiency from the moment you enter. Even though people may blow through the bosses due to their skills at their jobs basic role, in the end the majority of that 17 minutes amounts to a race through a dungeon we've all done a hundred times with characters who all run at a set speed, there is no real skill or talent involved you can't run faster or punt lalafells with such precision that they land on the portals just perfectly. You can just run a precise route that is the fastest route from point A to B, with as little interruption as possible.

Efficiency is definitely a skill, it just isn't the skill I'd personally choose to continuously hold above all others when playing a video game for fun.

I'd rather our reaction, or more complex demands on a group's ability to work as a team be tested through endgame content.

Enjoyment> Efficiency, and first kills are always more meaningful than fastest farm kills. SE needs to get endgame back on track and provide us with a more enjoyable experience filled with memorable moments (great saves, last stands, caught off guard...backs against the wall, against all odds type moments) rather than monotony and stop watches. Which is all they have given us in dungeons so far unfortunately

Well said Murugan, Velhart.

As a fan of racing games, I recognize the challenge of Speed / Clear Times. Beating a section of the Nürburgring with a Koenigsegg CCX in under XX:XX minutes is a great challenge in Gran Turismo.

So, of course a Speed Run under 17 Minutes requires skill and efficiency, but is that really the best method for providing a challenge for players for this Relic Quest, and for Final Fantasy XIV in general?

It's certainly the easiest, laziest way for the Dev Team to implement some "new challenge" for the Relic Quest, but it's poorly thought out in terms of providing a meaningful new gameplay experience.

As Murugan said, having encounters with stuff like "great saves" or "last stands" or being ambushed (truly surprise ambushes), new boss encounters, alternate paths, shifting environments, puzzles, alternate routes, or other variables / challenges would be far more welcome than just shaving more time off the clock.

It's true, the majority of the FF XIV population probably won't be able to complete this 17 minute challenge, but one would hope they designed a better step for the Relic Quest at this point (and in general).

[Airget]

Well said Murugan, Velhart.

As a fan of racing games, I recognize the challenge of Speed / Clear Times. Beating a section of the Nürburgring with a Koenigsegg CCX in under XX:XX minutes is a great challenge in Gran Turismo.

So, of course a Speed Run under 17 Minutes requires skill and efficiency, but is that really the best method for providing a challenge for players for this Relic Quest, and for Final Fantasy XIV in general?

It's certainly the easiest, laziest way for the Dev Team to implement some "new challenge" for the Relic Quest, but it's poorly thought out in terms of providing a meaningful new gameplay experience.

As Murugan said, having encounters with stuff like "great saves" or "last stands" or being ambushed (truly surprise ambushes), new boss encounters, alternate paths, shifting environments, puzzles, alternate routes, or other variables / challenges would be far more welcome than just shaving more time off the clock.

It's true, the majority of the FF XIV population probably won't be able to complete this 17 minute challenge, but one would hope they designed a better step for the Relic Quest at this point (and in general).

Man, never knew those megaman speedruns meant nothing skillwise...

People are complaining cause the variety of the "challenges" aren't to their liking but what's to say that the upcoming update won't have some insanely difficult NM in which people will be complaining that "this is to hard how am I suppose to have to skill to beat this NM" just wait it'll happen tomorrow to anyone who's completed all the objectives. SE will prolly add some insanely strong NM and people will complain that it's to strong and wonder why they can't add more things which rely on luck or speedrunning it.

We have Hamlets (skill and luck)
We have materia (luck)
We have class weapons (skill and luck)
We have melding (luck)
Kill x Beastmen NM (skill)
We have the dungeon speedruns (skill) o_O if the 100% drop rate is true for under 17 mins

So ya, looks pretty balanced to me there's room to show your luck and room to show your skill. Of course those with more gil will be able to press their luck more but those with less gil will have issues at said point. Just wait though, I bet they'll be a flood of complaints tomorrow when they see how "difficult" they make the final challenges that they are to challenging and require to much skill to beat.