Yoshida-san: Please Give Us a BETTER System for Relics and Future 2.0 Challenges!

[tymora]

So unless you're a crafter and gatherer yourself you're SoL at the mercy of relying on others to do it for you or praying you've got friends/LS members who can do it for you.

Well they already said in big red letters that its gonna be time consuming.
You can't get a relic in FFXI without a 100 craft and a weekly income of 1m gil either.

[Genome]

I would just like to point out that given enough time in XI you could at least accomplish something like a relic weapon. In XIV it is just not the same because there is a huge chance that you can spend many hours in a day with absolutely no progress towards your goal. This is a mistake and turns people off from wanting to continue.

Not to mention getting 60k chest in hamlet is not possible for every LS nor is a speed run in CC or AV. In XI you could enter dynamis with a group of like-minded adventurers and even if you couldn't beat shadowlord you could still work towards multiple other goals and feel like you accomplished something regardless of the final outcome. Here in XIV if you screw up, someone disconnects, power goes out, whatever, your run is done.

If they are going to stick with the RNG thing at least lower the difficulty of the raids and hamlet defense so that its possible for more casual groups to still work towards their goal, even if it may be slower than what a hard core group can accomplish.

[YuriSan]

To: Yoshida-san and the FF14 Team

Seeing the requirements for just opening up the Quest for the Relic Weapons (not even earning the final Relic), I have one plea:

* Please STOP relying on the "Random Number Generator / Low Drop Rate" to use as a Time Sink to keep the players busy.

We realize you have to keep the players busy while you work hard on 2.0. Many of us are *fine* with Long Term Goals and needs to draw out content.

But NOT through the current "Random Number Generator / Low Drop Rate" style of rewards we've been suffering through from Ifrit Weapons to Darklight to Materia Melding and Primal Seals, and now with the rest of the steps of the prerequisites for the Relic Weapon Quest (and this isn't even the final step).

For those that don't know, thanks to Sniper and other veterans we've confirmed that the steps just to activate the Relic Weapon Quest are:



Yoshida-san, this is essentially just "Rolling the Dice / Gambling / Playing the Lottery." It emphasizes REPETITION and DUMB LUCK to stretch out content.

I realize you can't create brand-new, detailed Story-based Missions that are full of Unique Monsters that we'd have to take down (for example, Chains of Promathea's Story Missions (early days)) since you're focusing on 2.0.

But using Random Number Generator / Low Drop Rates to make things last longer *doesn't* make the content or rewards "difficult." It's simply the easiest, most mind-numbing way to stretch out content.

How about *rewarding* players for their *effort* and *skill* instead?

Here are some quick ideas using your CURRENT ASSETS (with minor work at best) that would make the Relic Weapon Prerequisites more fair and based on Player Effort and providing CHALLENGE:

• Prove Your Skill & Teamwork by: Defeating Aurum Vale & Cutter's Cry without dying (no deaths).

• Prove Your Tenacity and "Learn" to bond with your Weapon by: Defeating 500 Enemies (Equal Level or Higher, or whatever specific Mob) with your "Broken (early) Pre-Relic Weapon."

• Prove Your Valour by: Defeating Certain "New" Notorious Monsters (NMs):
  • Infected Great Buffalo: Re-use the SAME Buffalo NM Model, but buff it up.
  • Infected Uraeus: Re-use the SAME Uraeus NM Model, but buff it up.
  • Infected Mosshorn: Re-use the SAME Mosshorn NM Model, but buff it up.
  • Infected Dodore: Re-use the SAME Dodore NM Model, but buff it up.
  • "New" Guivre / Drake NM: Re-use the *awesome* looking Guivre / Drake monster (we already have in-game), but scale it up 20% and balance the damage on its moves.
    
    For those that have never ventured to the farthest reaches of Eorzea, you should walk around and see these awesome looking creatures we have in-game. The Doomvoid Guivre, for example, looks amazing and glows when it attacks, etc. SE can easily turn this into an "NM" with some tweaks, without having to make a brand-new Model.
    
    http://ffxiv.zam.com/Im/image/177621
    http://ffxiv.gamerescape.com/wiki/Fi...voidGuivre.png

• Defeat All *3* Beastmen Strongholds using your "Broken Pre-Relic Weapon" Without Dying.

• Overcome the "Secret / Reverse Path" of [Dzemael / Cutter's Cry / Aurum Vale]" and gain the [Enchanted Item] at the end to continue. This would be re-using our current Dungeons, but let's say after you clear it (going forward), a new "Gate" highlights and you open up a Side Path (or run the dungeon in Reverse) with BUFFED UP Mobs, new Objectives, etc. (using the same mobs as before), etc. (Obviously Boss placement would be at the "end" of the new path / reverse dungeon path.)

• Incapacitate All Body Parts from [Certain NM] and Defeat them: This would challenge players to work on destroying various Body Parts of an NM before defeating them, and it would emphasize, weaving in and out, avoiding attacks from various sides, overcoming the Adds perhaps, while breaking down a Boss.

I'm not saying these are the best ideas (at all), but they all are MUCH BETTER than rolling the dice and playing the Random Number Generator / Low Drop Rate game that you have now.

Even the mundane task of "killing 500 Enemies" that I listed (with your broken Relic) is at least a *measurable* task that EVERYONE can gain the benefit from.

The key point is that it's much more palatable, encouraging, and desirable to know that you are making positive progress each time you effort, instead of just hoping and praying that you get the lucky DICE ROLL and you happened to get your drop for a Primal Seal (which you need 9 of from 3 separate Hamlets (that need to be in Stage 2, that need a 60,000+ Point Total, and that has a low drop rate), or a drop for your HQ Mats to craft one of the new hard Synths (Class Weapons), or you get the lucky roll for your Double Melding Materia on that Weapon to turn in.

And in addition to measurable progress (like a Point System, or # of Kills, or Ancient Currency (like Dynamis)), is the hope of something that also rewards more Skill and Effort instead of just pure dumb luck.

Yoshida-san, the new 2.0 Screenshots and Artwork and your new Interviews are all wonderful and encouraging, and it gives us hope.

But then at the same time, we get punched in the gut with YET ANOTHER "RANDOM NUMBER GENERATOR / Dumb Luck / Gambling / Rolling The Dice" task with the Relic Weapon Upgrades.

Please reconsider the Quest Path for Relic Weapons, and especially for the *majority* of 2.0 End Game Content.

And note that we're *NOT* asking for everything to be "easy" or "given to us fast." Long Term Goals are OK (and I love them)! But we need to have Rewards Systems that actually reward Player Skill and Effort and provides Good Challenge, instead of just making us SPAM / Throw Ourselves at a certain task over and over and hoping for a Blind Luck Dice Roll.

There's NO skill in praying that you can Double Meld 2 Tier IV Materias onto your costly Class Only Weapon. It's just gambling and rolling the dice.

Same for hoping you get 9 Primal Seals dropped into your inventory, spamming the same Hamlet Defense over and over.

2.0 shows *so* much promise. Please don't ruin our expectations and demoralize us with any more of this Random Number Generator / Low Drop Rate-style content.

Thank you!

Yet another perfectly well put and valid thread about the stupidity of the current
"RNG everything" system that will somehow miss the DEV's and Yoshi's eyes thus
not taken under consideration.
Don't expect their reply in here peeps.

[EdenArchangel]

Even knowing the 2.0 website and more information is coming after E3, I find that I can't get psyched even about 2.0 anymore.
What if this is really the future style of the best "shinies" in XIV? Imagine a level cap rise, and the first section of the patch notes details the ever-heightening twenty-step absurdities that the lucky lifeless few must do for a shot at upgrading their weapon. I'm calling it now: double-melding the relic weapon itself for the second upgrade, and having to start from the beginning with each break.

Honestly, this is the worst I've felt about XIV in the entire two years.

[Jynx]

Man people are over-reacting just a smidgen here.

[YuriSan]

smidgen

I lolled!

Ya you totally right, RNG is just fine the way it is. We can all
rely our entire progress in this game on our LUCK and the amount of time we
can spend to the game daily instead of our skillz. totally makes sense.

Unlucky people u can stop playing right now. no need to go on. lol.......

[Petdo]

It's RELIC weapons...
This meant to be hard to get, only few who have patient and dedication can have it.
It doesn't mean it's for everyone.

The one that can wield those weapons will be praise from community for their hard work.
Do you guys expect to get relic weapon in 2 weeks of playing nonstop?

This is ultimate item and it should take many many months to complete it not just few weeks.
Face it and enjoy it.

[Seirra_Lanzce]

i will support the OP if it says to me that i need to kill over 5000 monster to charge my weapon.

[Themis]

It would have been better to have postponed these kinds of weapons until 2.0 was up and running fully rather than trying to fit it into the currently available content. Random luck is not something I want to see be continued past this version, but with the amount of it being implemented it's hard to discern whether the trend will continue or if it is simply being used as the easy way to stretch content.

I would prefer a ridiculous amount of an item to be obtained, of which at least one of the item is guaranteed to drop in the event it comes from, than only need a few items that have a random chance to appear with an amazingly tiny drop rate. For someone soloing, 25k seals can take a while to get but at least you know each time you get some you will eventually get there.

This is where looking back at XI would be a good idea. A lot of people wanted the relics, but only a few got that chance (talking about the old days, naturally) to actually finish one. Time is obviously a big factor in getting said weapons, and the same is seen here. And there is nothing wrong with that, providing that it is possible to see that every second of that time turning into progression. When it comes to random number generators (and without knowing the nature of said RNG that is used here - it's not hard to throw extra rules into it like only calculating the RN 1 hour after the last drop of said item to really limit the amount of said items being instantiated) it's hard to know even roughly how long it could take you to get your item(s) and so the majority of players are going to be turned off straight away from pursuing even 1 weapon because they would rather spend their time doing something else in which that time does turn into potential progress.

There's also a missed opportunity to have people decide between speed running end game areas or not by having needed items drop randomly from normal mobs. Even if you needed 10k of an item and only got 50 out of the whole run (and even had to wait 15 minutes to get back in), at least there is progress as opposed to pure random luck.

The other downside I see is the same as with the primal weapons: Once a player has got the item(s) they need, they probably won't do that event again simply because they've either already burnt out on it (in which case they may not even start the quest line anyway) or have been burnt out trying to get these items. And if they are in fact extremely lucky and get them quickly, well then they are just going to be the envy of every other person still being whipped by the slave machine that is the RNG.

Luck will always be a factor when it comes to RNG (and that's acceptable) but there is a difference between being lucky at getting 1 of 3 items and being lucky in getting 100 items on a single run through an instance where the expected average is only 50. The latter is a good day, the former a damn relief.

---
tl;dr

Put this kind of stuff off until 2.0 if you can't think of better, more happy-inducing ways of implementing a new system where you can actually build content around the quests rather than building the quests into existing content.

Players whining about stuff that don't exist yet are far fewer than those who have been shown the ridiculous nature of this quest and are now complaining.

[Tano]

I hope you understand the RNG is going to be part of everything you do in some way / shape / form.

Probably, but, you see, it can be mitigated. Example? Garuda drop system. Ok, it was glitched, so it failed, but that's the way. If you're lucky you get weapon, if you're not, you still get tokens for defeat (and 2 if you're faster).

That's the perfect system.

And it's also used in most of modern mmos. You get tokens for whatever you do, and drops if you're lucky, but those are not required, since you at least get something.

Also raids drops are totally stupid in this game. Even in WoW (please, forgive me) when you beat a boss in a dungeon, EVERYBODY in the party get at least something, and it ALWAYS drops 1 final weapon for 1 class.

Why SE doesn't do it? Because there is not enough content to keep us busy, so we have to repeat AV/CC/Hamlet/Primals 300+ times to get 2-3 items we want. That's lame.

Hope it changes with 2.0, or I'll drop this game as I dropped XI.


At the moment I'm honestly waiting for new GC gear. Those weapons are even better then some primals, and only require GC seals and 5+ GC equips (that are better then AFs on some jobs). They will probably require a ridiculous amount of seals (like 10k I'd assume), but you don't need luck to get them, just hard work. And, guess what, you can obtain them in a lot of different ways, so it's not even boring.


More contents like Garuda or GC please. Stop this madness.