Relic Weapon Revival (06/06/2012)

[TheVedis]

Oh. My mistake. Thanks Thevedis.

gil sinks are something we badly need

i would like to see relics involved with it myself, i tossed the idea with my shell about charging 5mil per beastmen seal lol, wanna see some gil disappear from the economy, now THAT would be a gil sink

[Nilheim]

its not even luck, nor skill

its a massive time investment


people really just dont like the idea of time investment on here

I don't know how many times you have to read it to understand: the time you need to invest isn't a problem in itself, but it becomes one if it brings nothing in return.

I have to ask the players supporting this, do you seriously think a system based entirely (yes, entirely) on luck is a good one? You really wouldn't prefer something that actually rewards skill and effort? You don't think it is even remotely wrong that someone who spends 10 hours on his weapon can have it before another person who spends 200 hours on it? Wow...

[TheVedis]

I don't know how many times you have to read it to understand: the time you need to invest isn't a problem in itself, but it becomes one if it brings nothing in return.

I have to ask the players supporting this, do you seriously think a system based entirely (yes, entirely) on luck is a good one? You really wouldn't prefer something that actually rewards skill and effort? You don't think it is even remotely wrong that someone who spends 10 hours on his weapon can have it before another person who spends 200 hours on it? Wow...

luck is part of how much time itl take, how can you not understand that point too?

people use 11s relic as the example, needing tens of thousands of an item that takes FOREVER to farm, or to just go out and buy itl be quick(but thats a bad example since you cant buy your way into this one)

the time itl take to get 9 seals here is MUCH MUCH MUCH MUCH less then it took to get 11s relic, baed on 1 pure fact

NO COOLDOWN TIMER TO GO BACK INTO INSTANCE
thats right, no timer, do it as much as you want in a day based on how much time you have

this is the basis behind ALL low drop rates we get, and its what players want


so let me ask you this, if you could do hamlet only once every time its available, and have it on cooldown once you beat til the next time it cycles around, would you be willing to do that for a 100% drop rate? cuz thats basicaly what itl take


every games drops have rng to some extent, this is ours.
instead of going after 1 drop where theere are 15-20 a boss can drop(which come completely randomly, so you only get it 1 out of every 5-10 times) we have 1 drop we are going for here which drops at....oh look, the same drop rate almost

how is this not the same?

[viion]

luck is part of how much time itl take, how can you not understand that point too?

people use 11s relic as the example, needing tens of thousands of an item that takes FOREVER to farm, or to just go out and buy itl be quick(but thats a bad example since you cant buy your way into this one)

the time itl take to get 9 seals here is MUCH MUCH MUCH MUCH less then it took to get 11s relic, baed on 1 pure fact

NO COOLDOWN TIMER TO GO BACK INTO INSTANCE
thats right, no timer, do it as much as you want in a day based on how much time you have

this is the basis behind ALL low drop rates we get, and its what players want

so let me ask you this, if you could do hamlet only once every time its available, and have it on cooldown once you beat til the next time it cycles around, would you be willing to do that for a 100% drop rate? cuz thats basicaly what itl take

every games drops have rng to some extent, this is ours.
instead of going after 1 drop where theere are 15-20 a boss can drop(which come completely randomly, so you only get it 1 out of every 5-10 times) we have 1 drop we are going for here which drops at....oh look, the same drop rate almost

how is this not the same?

I think you are not understanding the point.

Your "1 pure fact" is based on Randomness, This randomness removes progression, it removes any time goal.

You cant say "XI Relic took way longer!" sure it did, it wasnt based around winning the random number game. It could take a lot less if you go buy it, but you'd always be moving forward. You do dynamis 50 times you've moved forward 50 dynamis's worth of currency. Do hamlet 50 times you can walk out with jackshit, absolute nothing.

Each failure added nothing to your "Relic Journey", each one was a slap in the face to the dedicated XIV Fan who is plunging hours and hours into them just to see some other guy who did 5% of the work and is dancing with his relic because he was "luckier".

in XI you could get a relic fast if you were rich, and if you did dynamis a lot. You'd always progress.

in XIV you can go do Hamlet over and over, doesnt matter if you do it once a day or 50 times a day you can walk out with nothing or you can walk out with 1 piece, the amount of times you do it doesnt matter at all because it doesnt change the fact that its random.

You could argue doing it often increases your changes because you get more chances to do it, thats very much a gamblers lie lol.

The fact and ONLY fact is these weapons are for people who win the random number game, nothing more. They're not for people who are loyal, they are not for people who are dedicated, they are not for challenge, they are for the lucky ones.

No one cares about "difficulty" because its not "Difficult" in any way at all.
No one cares about how long it takes because the amount of time it takes is not under your control.

People hate playing the random number game.

[Geo]

when people talk gil sink, they mean money removed from server, NOT money transfered to other players, hence why its only 100k

Quoted for truth. This is what the gil sink is. REMOVED from the Game. However with influx of gil coming into the game each day this doesn't even balance it out.

Dungeons need to have 50K entrance fee's, hamlet needs to have a 25K entrance fee.

You need to be able to buy the finished weapon for classes from an NPC for 1.5M. That is a TRUE gil sink.

[Firon]

I think you are not understanding the point.

Your "1 pure fact" is based on Randomness, This randomness removes progression, it removes any time goal.

You cant say "XI Relic took way longer!" sure it did, it wasnt based around winning the random number game. It could take a lot less if you go buy it, but you'd always be moving forward. You do dynamis 50 times you've moved forward 50 dynamis's worth of currency. Do hamlet 50 times you can walk out with jackshit, absolute nothing.

Each failure added nothing to your "Relic Journey", each one was a slap in the face to the dedicated XIV Fan who is plunging hours and hours into them, and other things just to see some other guy who did 5% of the work and is dancing with his relic because he was "luckier".

in XI you could get a relic fast if you were rich, and if you did dynamis a lot. You'd always progress.

in XIV you can go do Hamlet over and over, doesnt matter if you do it once a day or 50 times a day you can walk out with nothing or you can walk out with 1 piece, the amount of times you do it doesnt matter at all because it doesnt change the fact that its random.

You could argue doing it often increases your changes because you get more chances to do it, thats very much a gamblers lie lol.

The fact and ONLY fact is these weapons are for people who win the random number game, nothing more. They're not for people who are loyal, they are not for people who are dedicated, they are not for challenge, they are for the lucky ones.

^ Truth lol. Had someone ask me how could you stand getting an XI relic but not this.

[Req]

I think you are not understanding the point.

Your "1 pure fact" is based on Randomness, This randomness removes progression, it removes any time goal.

You cant say "XI Relic took way longer!" sure it did, it wasnt based around winning the random number game. It could take a lot less if you go buy it, but you'd always be moving forward. You do dynamis 50 times you've moved forward 50 dynamis's worth of currency. Do hamlet 50 times you can walk out with jackshit, absolute nothing.

Each failure added nothing to your "Relic Journey", each one was a slap in the face to the dedicated XIV Fan who is plunging hours and hours into them, and other things just to see some other guy who did 5% of the work and is dancing with his relic because he was "luckier".

in XI you could get a relic fast if you were rich, and if you did dynamis a lot. You'd always progress.

in XIV you can go do Hamlet over and over, doesnt matter if you do it once a day or 50 times a day you can walk out with nothing or you can walk out with 1 piece, the amount of times you do it doesnt matter at all because it doesnt change the fact that its random.

You could argue doing it often increases your changes because you get more chances to do it, thats very much a gamblers lie lol.

The fact and ONLY fact is these weapons are for people who win the random number game, nothing more. They're not for people who are loyal, they are not for people who are dedicated, they are not for challenge, they are for the lucky ones.

And still the biggest part of the issue is there is a "lock out timer" of sorts, considering the fact that you have to depend on the community to help you get the supply rating up. Getting 3 million points is unrealistic for one person unless you grind it out for like 2 weeks, and even then theres the whole randomness issue.

[TheVedis]

I think you are not understanding the point.

Your "1 pure fact" is based on Randomness, This randomness removes progress, it removes any time goal.

in XI you could get a relic fast if you were rich, and if you did dynamis a lot. You'd always progress.

in XIV you can go do Hamlet over and over, doesnt matter if you do it once a day or 50 times a day you can walk out with nothing or you can walk out with 1 piece, the amount of times you do it doesnt matter at all because it doesnt change the fact that its random.

You could argue doing it often increases your changes because you get more chances to do it, thats very much a gamblers lie lol.

The fact and ONLY fact is these weapons are for people who win the random number game, nothing more. They're not for people who are loyal, they are not for people who are dedicated, they are not for challenge, they are for the lucky ones.

you talk about loyalty, and dedicated

those factors mean you are probly doing it with a static group
and im sorry, but if thats the case, you ARE getting drops for being loyal, to your group
cuz your group, in 50 runs, probly got at least 15 drops(based on drop rates people have reported so far)
so a group of 8 people, will have to run roughly 240 hamlets to get everyone in the group their seals

thats 120 hours worth of hamlets, and you can do that in a week, 2 tops

compare that to dynamis again, where you would get 5 currencies tops maybe if you ran a full dynamis group.
5 currencies, out of 10k+ that you needed
thats over 2000 dynamis runs
oh and you can only do 2 per week.....


so you really call that "progress that shows" i call that a huge laugh


i already suggested that maybe they do need to make these seals sellable, or perhaps put them on a vendor for a HUGE price as a gil sink to remove gil from the economy. but in the end, the truth behind all drop rates in this game stands

we have next to no cooldown on instances because people whined and whined when instances were being added about not having to wait to go in again, and this is the price we had to pay for it since we have again, no cooldown to go back inside any instance save a few minutes

give us a day+ cooldown on any re-entry, and then ill fight for your high drop rates to show instant progress, otherwise, not gonna happen

[Nilheim]

luck is part of how much time itl take, how can you not understand that point too?

people use 11s relic as the example, needing tens of thousands of an item that takes FOREVER to farm, or to just go out and buy itl be quick(but thats a bad example since you cant buy your way into this one)

the time itl take to get 9 seals here is MUCH MUCH MUCH MUCH less then it took to get 11s relic, baed on 1 pure fact

NO COOLDOWN TIMER TO GO BACK INTO INSTANCE
thats right, no timer, do it as much as you want in a day based on how much time you have

this is the basis behind ALL low drop rates we get, and its what players want


so let me ask you this, if you could do hamlet only once every time its available, and have it on cooldown once you beat til the next time it cycles around, would you be willing to do that for a 100% drop rate? cuz thats basicaly what itl take


every games drops have rng to some extent, this is ours.
instead of going after 1 drop where theere are 15-20 a boss can drop(which come completely randomly, so you only get it 1 out of every 5-10 times) we have 1 drop we are going for here which drops at....oh look, the same drop rate almost

how is this not the same?

Your example is completely wrong for FFXIV because we have shitty drop rates with Darklight, Ifrit, and Moogle as well, and most people definitely need more than one item, so it's much worse than other games where you know, for sure, that somebody will get something at the end of the day (at least generally speaking).

And yes, I would prefer doing content less often with more chances at getting something in return. I don't know about you but my concept of fun doesn't include spamming the exact same thing 10 times a day for months until I get something. Don't pretend doing Hamlet, Raids, or Primals is still fun after you've cleared them 50 times.

As for Materia, sure you know what your chances are when you're about to attempt the double meld. That doesn't change the fact that you could very well spend 6 hours a day attempting to double meld and still walk away with nothing but a hole in your wallet.

Finally, comparing this to the relics of FFXI is irrelevant. Not only were those the ultimate items for many years (whereas here, the simple weapons from Grand Companies are a very strong second), they revolved around content that could include dozens of other people who could get something as well. But as I said, this is irrelevant, and I never liked Dynamis.

[Jynx]

they are for the lucky ones.

...really?

The only big RNG based thing we know of so far is the seal drops and materia meld...I guess only "Lucky" people have a group that can consitantly beat hamlets with high scores, crush Aurum Vale, Cutters Cry, beat the bosses in the strongholds...ext.

Sure luck is a bit of a factor but I mean really....when is it not a part of anything in games in general? Dynamis currency is "Luck" based too it was just a larger number so you always got something instead of a smaller number and didn't always get a drop.

Some Dynamis runs walked away with hundreds of currency per run, sometimes they walked away with next to nothing (Not even enough to pay for the run) Getting your Necrosyph was luck based as well the NM didn't always drop it and was out of the way for your entire group.