Trends in content types and faux difficulty

[Sol_Aureus]

Reading over the Karma system it seems easily exploitable and a means to convince competitive players to buy two versions of the game so that they can easily maximize themselves.
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To the OP you say the content doesn't take skill, then you're saying that when any of this content is released it's always 100% success rate, people never fail these dungeons at all? You're complaint seems to be tailored to the fact that people understand the dungeon and thus can get by with little issues which is the point that it becomes spammable. It's honestly no different from what you see in XI's events aside from the fact that they can only be done once a day.

When it comes to being able to spam certain events it comes down to the casual player. The majority of players who complain about content going by to fast or obtaining things to quickly are usually the hardcore players or those who have time on their hands to get through the event and spam it.

For a casual player however perhaps they only have 1 day in which they can do dungeons, so the ability to spam said dungeon for the whole day is a godsend for them if they just don't have the time to do it later in the week. Unlike in XI when Dynamis use to be on a 3 day cooldown people would have to dedicate 2 days to doing dynamis on a set schedule and such.

At the start all content is difficult when you don't understand what's going on but once you learn all the tricks behind it it's easy to get through. Honestly speaking the "speedrun" is only a natural order in which this type of content evolves into to. You've learned everything there is to know about it, now you attempt to run through the dungeon in the quickest manner possible.

People tend to forget that things in this game are designed to allow casual players to maximize the time they have. It's just that the hardcore have the same tools so they can get even greater use out of it. Especially now since anima is pretty much limitless. Anime, leves, dungeon cooldowns.

In a sense it comes down to this, would you rather have content with a 15% drop rate that you can only do every three days, or content in which the drop rate is 5% but you can do it as much as you like? 3 days equates to only being able to enter the dungeon twice a week, and if you fail you have to wait for the cooldown.. wouldn't that be quite discouraging if perhaps you made a mistake at the start or an unfortunate d/c occured.

The system set up in 14 is one which allows players to make mistakes since they do happen at times, but rather then all their progress be lost or waste a chance to obtain loot, they are free to try again right away which is why things become easier much quicker. People have more time to play around in the dungeon and can build up strategies for it quicker. With something like dynamis the reason why it may seem like it took a while to understand is because of it's cooldown, if people can only enter it 3 times a day, then you want to win, you don't always think of trying to understand it, but you try and balance both understanding the strategy behind it and winning. If dynamis was set to 1 day strategies would prolly have been set in place 10 times faster, and if people could spam it then it would've been figured out in 5 days lol.

There's nothing wrong with the content now, it's designed for casuals, it's designed so that even people with little time on their hand can actually enjoy all the content in the game.

I never said the content didn't take skill, I said it does not reward skill. It rewards luck. Which is true.

And they already have separate lockouts for failure and success, I don't see any reason that they couldn't keep that to appease those who make mistakes or when unfortunate stuff like d/cs happen. have it be like a 30 minute to an hour lockout for failure, 2 day lockout for success.

And while I fully admit that I'm a hardcore player, I have a few friends who are casual as well who are more annoyed with this system than I am. With their limited play time on top of the abysmally low drop rates, they have lost all motivation to even try the dungeons. There are plenty of other games out there that cater to the casual market a lot better, creating spamable content with abysmally low drop rates is most definitely not a casual model.

I see no problem with the lockout model for casuals either. If you have limited play time, you dont even have to worry about the lockouts. Get on, do Cutter's, Aurum, Ifrit, Moogle, Garuda, or Hamlet defense. Or a combination of those. That's a lot of stuff to do, and especially if you're a casual and don't have much play time, you'll always have something to do when you sign on.

[Cerivaneli]

I must agree with OP. SE has been working really well since patch 1.21 in adding different types of content, different types of fights, but I personnally dislike the amount of random FFXIV has in just about every aspect of the game.

It's fine to have a lot of random when you're creating materias and/ or doing melds, or when you go harvest, but having it for "endgame" content is just really frustrating. It's just luck that is being rewarded, not effort or skill. The drop rates are so low that even after 100+ speed runs, we only saw one single darklight body drop. Really hard not to get the feeling that spamming CC and AV is just a waste of time, as fun as they may have been at the start.

Some may argue that it's to leave a door open to casual players, but as from the experience in our LS, the casual players are the first to say they don't want to waste their time doing events with so low drop rates. They don't have the time to spam an event hundreds of time with no guaranty to ever even get anything at all.

SE needs to find a way to give sense to this spamming of events in some way, to give the players a feeling of reward for their efforts. If you're lucky, you get a drop, if not you at least get some sort of reward like company points or currencies to exchange for items (just pls something else than an achievement giving you 10 points for getting 100 million gil from coffers in dungeons @.@)

[Lux_Rayna]

What is all this talk about effort and skill? What a joke. When you have the majority of the playerbase exploiting primals, exploiting safe zones with all blm parties, class stacking for easy wins due to poor boss mechanics, you have no business talking about rewarding effort and skill. On the contrary, the playerbase avoids effort and skill like the plague. Theyd rather faceroll blm parties than die for hours strategizing. Theyd rather abuse poor mechanics than try to beat a fight as intended. What a joke.

The only thing im reading is "give me loot". Its what it always boils down to. You cannot pretend there is a great amount of skill and effort involved. Therr is if you take up the challenge but a majority dont. Frankly that kind of cheesy and abusive gameplay shouldn't be rewarded with easy loot. Jus sayin.

[Sol_Aureus]

What is all this talk about effort and skill? What a joke. When you have the majority of the playerbase exploiting primals, exploiting safe zones with all blm parties, class stacking for easy wins due to poor boss mechanics, you have no business talking about rewarding effort and skill. On the contrary, the playerbase avoids effort and skill like the plague. Theyd rather faceroll blm parties than die for hours strategizing. Theyd rather abuse poor mechanics than try to beat a fight as intended. What a joke.

The only thing im reading is "give me loot". Its what it always boils down to. You cannot pretend there is a great amount of skill and effort involved. Therr is if you take up the challenge but a majority dont. Frankly that kind of cheesy and abusive gameplay shouldn't be rewarded with easy loot. Jus sayin.

This thread has nothing to do with people class stacking, and it's not a cry for "give me loot." I simply don't want spamable content with abysmally low drop rates, I want lockouts with higher drop rates. I also don't want content types and loot systems that rely mostly on luck as opposed to the effort and skill it took to clear the content. That should be where the difficulty in getting the item is: clearing the content. The difficulty should not be in hoping that the random number generator decides that the 86th time's the charm and drops the item you want.

Stop trying to derail this thread with another subject.

[Black_Rose]

spamming Cutter's Cry for over a month already without a single body drop, and hardly any other darklight drops at all (if we're lucky we're getting like maybe 5 drops in a whole week of work).
i mean we do CC daily, 3-4 runs minimum, on weekends up to 10-20 each day.
i'm sick of all this speedrun spamming, but at the same time, if i don't do it, what other content is there for me to do? everything feels the same, this is exactly why i deny to do garuda & hamlet, as it is just another ifrit with different attacks that are just stronger to give you the feeling of having more "challenging" content, which is actually not the case.

if you ask me, the only skill in this game that is required, is evading strong mob attacks on this hell laggy servers.

just get rid of this spamming ideas, and make content more lengthy without the need to do speedruns.
what hurts casuals isn't content that requires you an hour or 2 to put in, but what hurts everybody is content that can be abused repeatedly with almost none to no rewarding sense.

i'm not asking for some sort of FFXI content that made you put hours into it and wait 72hrs after to be able to do again, just some more lengthy content that actually rewards you.

i'm just hoping for some serious changes regarding this with 2.0, as i have no hopes for the current version to ever get it's shit together.all we get are fillers to keep us paying till 2.0.

[AtryxEtair]

I see both sides of the argument here. But overall I agree with the OP. Spamming anything over and over and over reduces the value of it no matter what it is, whether physical, mental, or perceived. A craft, a dungeon, a mob, a run...reducing the availability of something is an irrefutable way to increase anything in worth. That cannot be argued.

I do see the dilemma SE is faced with in terms of content due to in-game population, server structure, and lack of content to begin with. All this while remaking the majority of the game at the same time. I don't expect ground breaking content at this point in the game. I'm not sure anyone does. The issue has arisen players are realizing this may become a habit or sign of things to come.

No one can know. But a little reassurance could go a long way.

[Genz]

They may put a tag system.
I think we need to be able to repeat something because it requires less organisation : don't have to run from place to place, don't have to verify that everyone in your group can indeed fight ifrit and mog and garuda, don't have to keep your unique "right to do cutter's cry" for your linkshell run tonight preventing you to answer this interesting shout, etc.

Repeating a content for 2-3h seems fine to me. I guess it's a play time for a lot of people, between 8h p.m. and midnight
(2-3 times a same donjon, 7-8 times a primal fight)

[Ryans]

It looks like I'm in the small category of people who like RNG for drops. Whenever I know I am going to get an item, I have very little motivation to actually go out and do it. Its a lot like how I am with dating; If I know I can get the girl, there is no sense of accomplishment and thus no desire to pursue. I like having to work for things instead of being guaranteed to receive them if I spend an hour doing a dungeon.

[Darte]

Personally, I would rather progress towards 100 tokens as opposed to a single random % drop.

[Blanka]

There's nothing wrong with the content now, it's designed for casuals, it's designed so that even people with little time on their hand can actually enjoy all the content in the game.

I'd have to disagree with this. I don't get much time to play these days, maybe 8 hours or so a week. I'd rather log in and do one event in the evening than have to spam the same content over and over again. I don't mind being locked out because most of the time I'm not around long enough to be bored. I know this doesn't apply to all players and the people with more time definitely deserve more opportunities for events/rare gear but for me it's a lot more fun to do the event, hope for the best, and if not better luck next time.