Integrity matters

[Kup]

As someone who plays only the base game, my reasoning is simple: if I got mad over everything other people did in an MMO, I’d be miserable 24/7. I focus on what I achieve. I know I earned my accomplishments by working for them and whether a random stranger bots it is neither my problem nor my concern.

If people tie their identity and self-worth this hard to in-game achievements, cheaters are the least of their worries. Focus on yourself. If you got a rare achievement, be proud! But keep in mind that the random players sitting in Limsa aren't bathing you in validation for a title over your head. You can wrap it up in fancy words like fair play, integrity, and morals, but at least be honest enough to admit this is purely about ego and exclusivity.

Saying everyone who doesn't give a damn about what other people do are using cheating tools shows just how out of touch you really are.

"We have rules for a reason." please tell me you throw just as much of a fit when someone litters on the ground IRL, that's also "against the rules." and a thousand times more harmful than someone cheating in a video game, or is it only worth getting mad over when its a hit to your egos?

That's all I'll say on this matter because there's clearly no chance of talking in good faith with you people.

I'm not really interested in your attempts to twist arguments and reasoning. I said what I said and chose the words deliberately not to perform verbal subterfuge but because I do in fact value things like fair play, integrity, morals and more. I don't much care for ego but some exclusivity is definitely a good thing to have too so that's a good point you raised with that.

I don't know what you're talking about with telling me I'm out of touch, what you said is not what I said anyway. I said I don't understand what someone could gain or what the motivations would be for vocally arguing and debating or defending the state and availability of tools that are blatantly cheating. I still don't.

As for your comment on rules. I have picked up litter other people drop or left behind many times and have done litter collections in my neighbourhood many times while out walking too. Throwing a fit over it wouldn't be much use but I've definitely made comments to people I've seen litter close to me before. I'm not sure what point you thought you were making with this. Some people have morals and convictions and act on what they think is right.

[Len_]

Sometimes when people say "I don't understand" what they mean is "I refuse to understand even if you explain it to me."

And then they just keep saying it over and over.

[Kup]

Lol well you're welcome to accuse me of cheating but I definitely don't use any mods or plugins like is being described in this thread. If I was interested in that I'd probably have an ult clear by now! I probably wouldn't have done some odd hundreds of pulls in the first week of savage either when those tools are not available. What OP wants is a built-in anticheat which pretty clearly negatively affects games, and the vast majority of plugins that people use are not even gameplay oriented, they do things like help you transfer servers easier. These plugins are tacitly endorsed by XIV anyway and these types of mods are ubiquitous in the MMO scene. If you've spent time on the forums you should be familiar with this sort of scorched-earth mindset regarding mods which is explicitly not shared by the developers and I think it's worthwhile to push back a little in the interest of keeping anti-cheat malware off my machine. To be honest I'm not even sure I would be able to play at all with an anti-cheat since I'm on Linux and I already have to jump through some hoops to play.

And, of course, going back - mods are not what is giving people illegitimate clears in high-end content. Those are all pilots. Nobody is interested in talking about that because 1. there's no way to regulate it and 2. it doesn't further the anti-mod cause. Despite it being by far the most widespread form of cheating in high-end content in the game. We have to evade that discussion by talking about Lord/Lady of the Firmament titles of all things.

Whether it be an anticheat (I agree that this would not be ideal and nor would a scorched earth approach) that OP wants or some other form of action taken doesn't change the fact that there are many people who do want something done to rein in some of the more egregious tools available that automate aspects of the game. Things like Artisan, Wrath, AutoDuty, and there are many more plugins to automate other things. It's already been discussed earlier in the thread about how much damage various botting tools can do and the different parts of the overall game ecosystem that they do damage to.

As for illegitimate clears of high end content, you're completely right and it's in the vast majority of cases going to fall under the umbrella of RMT activities which is a whole other issue that I'm sure a lot of people would love if it could be stopped or mitigated but as you say, there's no way to really regulate that in many of the forms it takes, and SE has shown little interest in combatting RMT in any real capacity other than the bare minimum of occasional ban waves on obvious bots. Which in my opinion at least is another aspect that greatly harms the integrity of the game as they do little in actioning people who clearly purchase RMT services.

[Kup]

I didn't need tools or cheats to rez somebody up on top of the Kugane lamp post, and it didn't stop me from poo-pooing all over anyone else who got the achievement legit, including myself. It was in fact the first thing I did when I got up there was to put out a PF offering to get other people up there. Only got 2-3 takers though, but this was back when I lived on Dynamis so I guess it couldn't be helped. I even logged out and tried again during peak hours.

What are you talking about?

[SticksToFloors]

Whether it be an anticheat (I agree that this would not be ideal and nor would a scorched earth approach) that OP wants or some other form of action taken doesn't change the fact that there are many people who do want something done to rein in some of the more egregious tools available that automate aspects of the game. Things like Artisan, Wrath, AutoDuty, and there are many more plugins to automate other things. It's already been discussed earlier in the thread about how much damage various botting tools can do and the different parts of the overall game ecosystem that they do damage to.

As for illegitimate clears of high end content, you're completely right and it's in the vast majority of cases going to fall under the umbrella of RMT activities which is a whole other issue that I'm sure a lot of people would love if it could be stopped or mitigated but as you say, there's no way to really regulate that in many of the forms it takes, and SE has shown little interest in combatting RMT in any real capacity other than the bare minimum of occasional ban waves on obvious bots. Which in my opinion at least is another aspect that greatly harms the integrity of the game as they do little in actioning people who clearly purchase RMT services.

That makes sense, but there are no sensible approaches that would target specific plugins without compromising the game in other ways. The only real method, which has been done before, is to target a specific mod provider and shut them down. That's not a perfect solution since people simply back them up but it's dissuasive. I have no love for Wrath and the people who use it but since it doesn't really affect my experience I'm happy to let it live in exchange for people having access to things like Lifestream, I have friends who probably wouldn't even bother to DC hop to play with me otherwise. When it comes to the integrity of things like achievements I think it's a lost cause. The most prestigious battle achievements will always be piloted no matter what you do and the grindiest ones are about self-satisfaction more than showing off. Most people wouldn't know what Lord of the Firmament entails. XIV doesn't have prestige farming in the same way WoW or OSRS does, it's just not that kind of game. You can't protect something that barely existed to begin with. Better off minding our own business is what I think. As for the MB, there are a thousand ways to make gil doing battle content and there are far fewer things to spend it on, so the market which has always been busted is a non-issue for me.

[Turtledeluxe]

I like how we inevitably come to the conclusion the game lacks integrity and if you don't like it, leave. Lol. Why even bother fighting against TC. I don't get it. This game must really be out of content.

[Anonemoose]

I don't agree with the TC at all, but that's because they've slowly outed themselves as a disingenuous hypocrite in another related topic. It's ironic that they speak of integrity and yet they seem incapable of it.

You must be referring to my position on pedophiles and that I am disgusted by the sexualization of children, grooming and CSAM engaged in and enabled by FFXIV modding communities, including the two FFXIV pedophile mod communities engaged in a public civil war.

If wanting to protect children from actual pedophiles and being critical of people defending those pedophiles makes me a disingenuous hypocrite, so be it. I am telling you right now that I am on the right side here, even if I hold the minority opinion on this matter here on these forums.

Pedophiles and their sympathizers can continue to dogpile on me, harass me and engage in all manner of other coordinated smears and attacks. This vile, terminally online conduct from pedophiles and pedophile sympathizers to bully others into silence will not work on me.

I think the sexualization of children and CSAM in any way is wrong, you think that its okay to sexualize children and produce and consume CSAM because it's "fictional". My perspective on this will not change based on whatever supposed consensus may exist. That's the difference between you and me. Don't talk to me about integrity, you don't even know the meaning of the word.

[SticksToFloors]

Ask someone to clarify instead of just insult you one too many times and they start talking about the alleged Final Fantasy XIV pedophile cabal. Think of the children! That's enough of that, you kids have fun. Where does a "lawyer" get the time for this...

[Solowing]

And neither do you, you've made that abundantly clear in both this topic and the other one that got deleted when you not only can't tell the difference between reality and fiction, but you condemn one form of fictional crime but condone others.

Unless you're willing to accuse me of also being a zoophile for being a furry and a psychopath for playing Final Fantasy 14, you are in fact a disingenuous hypocrite.
+++



I wouldn't say I feel belittled, but I also don't feel like they're being sincere either, and they're just using this gross incident as a vehicle to push their own anti-mod agenda by trying to equate all mod makers and users as predators... despite the fact it was a mod maker that outed and reported the people trying to make and distribute real life CSAM.

The fact they keep referring to it as "pedophile civil war" goes to show that they'll even attack the people ON THEIR SIDE just because they're mod makers and users. They probably even think people using parsers, bloom reducers, or Hrothgar/Viera hat-enablers are pedophiles, that's how rabid and far gone they are.

Excuse me , you have a adult industrial complex sitting inside of a game , rated for 13+

With no oversight or age gating. Robox did the same thing and look where it got em...

[Nokuushi]

My post about FFXIV Kittens Pedophile group got removed.

Glad to see where SE values are.

I truly hope that you won't need to rethink your aproach Moderation team, when real life children will get molested and fished out via your game.
Keep hidding this issue under rug, and pretending it's not there.
FFXIV already was in ''Mainstream'' and it wasn't good.