Integrity matters

[caffe_macchiato]

trying to witchhunt people over something the lead dev declared fine is obvious harassment and hence can be reported for bans, right?

FFXIV is doing so well right now. So using cheats, mods, and running a brothel are perfectly fine, but reposting the TOS verbatim is a bannable offense.

No wonder WoW has 10x the player count that we do. What happened to this game and its community?

[VanillaWafer]

Final Fantasy XIV in the West is like a 90’s anime that got butchered in localization. There’s two versions of the game, one in Japan centered around gameplay and what the developers intended. Then there’s the American version which throws all of that out for sex and dirty mod roleplay. You join an FC, they want you in the syncshell. You friend someone, they want your sync code. You idle in a city, someone will /tell you for sexual favors. You look in party finder, there’s nothing but sex ads. The gameplay is here, but no one actually cares. The few who do are all using bots and plugins. Our version of the game is very, very different. And you can’t escape it, because everyone else plays the game this way.

When can we get the old FFXIV back?

I'll tell you one thing: I have never, ever experienced any of this. No one has even bothered to talk to me like that, which is fine by me since I generally keep to myself anyway.

But once again, I'd ask you to be careful with making sweeping claims about the community. I understand that you're sharing your opinion and your experiences, but statements like “everyone else plays the game this way” make it sound like your experience represents the community as a whole.

And honestly, I don't think that's really contributing to the OP's topic in the way you think it is.

[Ankhira]

Naoki Yoshida - Regarding Mod Usage and Culture

Yet, here you said:

There’s two versions of the game, one in Japan centered around gameplay and what the developers intended.

You love contradicting yourself, don't you? You can't say "Japan centered around gameplay and what the developers intended" then post a quote of the actual Japanese game director saying what he said. Yeah you're cooked, I can't with you, you just want to argue and move goalposts and contradict yourself to seem right, I can't anymore

The fact that you don't even notice your own contradictions and hypocrisy is actually impressive

[Carighan]

So using cheats, mods, and running a brothel are perfectly fine, but reposting the TOS verbatim is a bannable offense.

It's a sad state of affairs that by now in the thread you have to resort to these kinds of... replies. Vicarious embarassment is apparently how the english language calls what people feel when reading your comments now that they're all like this. Especially because in this case you had to not only selectively quote, but then also fail to actually parse the language of the quoted part, all to derive some meaning from it that isn't actually there.

I would advise you to not participate in threads about topics like cheating, botting, or actual legal matters such as grooming if you can't restrain yourself and keep making light of such serious matters. That just mocks people.

[Solowing]

I'll tell you one thing: I have never, ever experienced any of this. No one has even bothered to talk to me like that, which is fine by me since I generally keep to myself anyway.

But once again, I'd ask you to be careful with making sweeping claims about the community. I understand that you're sharing your opinion and your experiences, but statements like “everyone else plays the game this way” make it sound like your experience represents the community as a whole.

And honestly, I don't think that's really contributing to the OP's topic in the way you think it is.

Can we throw that wholesome and welcoming community moniker out too then?

That is also a sweeping generalization of this community that simply isn't true.

The sword cuts both ways

[VanillaWafer]

Can we throw that wholesome and welcoming community moniker out too then?

That is also a sweeping generalization of this community that simply isn't true.

The sword cuts both ways

Yeah, that's actually my point: I don't think either extreme is particularly useful. Saying the entire community is wholesome and welcoming is a generalization, just as saying everyone plays FFXIV for sex, mods, or cheating is a generalization.

I'd rather talk about the specific behaviors and problems we're actually trying to address.

Edit: I know this goes without saying, but I've been playing this game since ARR. I've seen the good, the bad, and the ugly of what this community can accomplish, which is why I've taken a fairly neutral position on this.

I've asked what we're actually supposed to do about these allegations, and I haven't really received an answer. So, I'm just going to take it as them just spitballing their opinion into the void.

If the goal is to address these problems, then I'd rather talk about what can actually be done than make sweeping statements about what the entire community supposedly is.

[Solowing]

Yeah, that's actually my point: I don't think either extreme is particularly useful. Saying the entire community is wholesome and welcoming is a generalization, just as saying everyone plays FFXIV for sex, mods, or cheating is a generalization.

I'd rather talk about the specific behaviors and problems we're actually trying to address.

Edit: I know this goes without saying, but I've been playing this game since ARR. I've seen the good, the bad, and the ugly of what this community can accomplish, which is why I've taken a fairly neutral position on this.

I've asked what we're actually supposed to do about these allegations, and I haven't really received an answer. So, I'm just going to take it as them just spitballing their opinion into the void.

If the goal is to address these problems, then I'd rather talk about what can actually be done than make sweeping statements about what the entire community supposedly is.

Actual enforcement of their terms of service on mods.

Actual enforcement of the spaces. On some level.

Because they definitely do have a problem with this game normalizing its mod culture and red light district becoming a smokes screen for deviants and predators rather than a game..

My state requires my facial recognition to watch the pronz. But let me download a couple of things. Boom suddenly I got a workaround for state jurisdiction lol

With no oversight or age verification and the other person on the opposite end isnt age verified either. This thing is a walking legal warhead waiting for someone to trip the trigger.

[DiaDeem]

[Carighan]

Actual enforcement of their terms of service on mods.

Yeah. I mean they do. They ban accounts regularly for botting, for cheating, and also a (smaller) number for conduct that breaks the ToS (so probably modding and harassing other gamers with it).

What you mean is "step it up, do it faster", I assume?

What they really ought to do is make the server flag suspicious behaviour so that botters and cheaters automatically run into a problem as their behavior circumvents what a reasonable player could reasonably do, and hence gets flagged for manual review, at which point a whole bot-network would be easy enough to ban in one fell swoop.

My state requires my facial recognition to watch the pronz. But let me download a couple of things. Boom suddenly I got a workaround for state jurisdiction lol

This is already being done, you can check the relevant classification information. As any visual change only affects you yourself it's the mod-download that would need to be limited in your state (but not in others, local laws matter!), while the online interaction with other humans is explicitly not rated (and hence automatically classified as 18+ or whatever your equivalent is).
The in-game elements can be suggestive, but e.g. over here the game is 12+ because of the suggestive and lewd elements (you might be confusing violence and sex in what age ratings they cause?).

Though, of course, if you know of a download that genuinely breaks your state's laws, tell your state and have them contact github or whatever to put age-verification on the download.

[Solowing]

Yeah. I mean they do. They ban accounts regularly for botting, for cheating, and also a (smaller) number for conduct that breaks the ToS (so probably modding and harassing other gamers with it).

What you mean is "step it up, do it faster", I assume?

What they really ought to do is make the server flag suspicious behaviour so that botters and cheaters automatically run into a problem as their behavior circumvents what a reasonable player could reasonably do, and hence gets flagged for manual review, at which point a whole bot-network would be easy enough to ban in one fell swoop.



This is already being done, you can check the relevant classification information. As any visual change only affects you yourself it's the mod-download that would need to be limited in your state (but not in others, local laws matter!), while the online interaction with other humans is explicitly not rated (and hence automatically classified as 18+ or whatever your equivalent is).
The in-game elements can be suggestive, but e.g. over here the game is 12+ because of the suggestive and lewd elements (you might be confusing violence and sex in what age ratings they cause?).

Though, of course, if you know of a download that genuinely breaks your state's laws, tell your state and have them contact github or whatever to put age-verification on the download.

The word mod should be treated like the name Voldemort. Like the odd person will whisper it in hushed tones, and the person who does is treated like a pariah about to be struck down by Zeus's lightning bolt itself. But in secret we know some of y'all down with the Dark Lord. lol

But the community out here invoking his name out in broad daylight, the town cryer giving updates of Voldemorts brand new Acolytes springing up. Complete with the travelers spreading the good word of Voldemort. Talkin bout "I'm not truely living" cause I haven't accepted the good word of Voldemort yet.


Sorry had fun with that one lol
--------------------------------

Once children are involved, all of that becomes irrelevant.

And the 18+ industrial complex that was built into a game with no oversight and a hands off approach. Creates a smokescreen and potential pipeline.

Look at what happened to Roblox when you have no oversight. Im not a prude for rules. But if you have 18+ adult spaces, and activities. And no way to filter out minors, and since theirs no ID verification while still having access to the space freely and long as they stay silent and say /yes to question that's going to spring..And then they will likely ask you do you have access to Vodimorts spell book? No? Well let me send you off to a unaffiliated website to download this add-on, that the developer may or may not be ok with. To download an add-on that might have JR's internet access removed from him if the wrong thing pops up when the right people are watching. And if theyre female? Internet privileged revoked until you move outta my house.

"I didn't know" wont hold up with the onus on the adult. Because you cant hold children to account.