UNDERCUTTING....

[Noir]

1) People wanted an AH. They got one. Congrats.

2) Crafting and Gathering have both gotten easier since the beginning of the game. Especially since last patch. Expect a lot more competition for NQ items and a moderate increase in the amount of competition for HQ stuff.

3) Botting is not the reason why prices are going down. Botting has always been around. The economy is falling out because any numb-nut monkey with some time can craft now. Thank SE for that.

4) HQ class specific items will fall in price over the next few months as well. It is the nature of the beast. When something first comes out it gets exploited till the market is saturated and it is not worth the trouble to make any more. buyers know this and wait for a better price. They are just letting the MWs take their natural course. Market bulls stay ahead of that curve and exploit it as much as possible.

5) Undercutting is a way to make quick easy gil. Even if only by 1 gill. Wait it out and wait for the demand to exceed the supply or compete for buyers.

6) If you think that producing HQ items is very hard then you are wrong. It is slightly difficult at best. No real decision making or risk is made for crafting anymore. All you really have to decide on is weather to take the risk to HQ or just complete the item. If you are having trouble popping out finished products then you need to farm more, get better crafting gear, read the crafting forums here and/or do some research into HQing since 1.22.

7) People are not obsessed with HQ in FFXIV...not like FFXI. This is because crafting is (more so than ever after 1.22) much easier to do and more people leveled their crafts earlier on. This situation will probably not change in the MWs until a level increase comes out or they offer a specialization option for crafting classes.

Prices going down!??? Whaatrrt? A food cost 14-20k! And I see weapons costing millions. Where are prices going down!????

[Darkillumina]

That is exactly what I said and why I linked that article. But it flew way over your head.



I don't think you still understand what a cartel is. When you have a bunch of people chiming in and saying that an item should be X price, and that people shouldn't undercut it, and blah blah, that's price fixing done by a group of producers. Also known as a cartel, or at least an attempted cartel.

And fyi, I wasn't the first one to bring up that word in this thread.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...l=1#post682596




Then why did you bring up the mafia in your attempt to argue against me? What possible point could you have been trying to make with that? Can you elaborate?



I bolded the completely ironic part in your argument there. I don't need them to quit the whole game to drive them out of business. When their item is no longer being sold on the market or they repurpose it, then I have effectively ran them out of business. They're not my competition anymore. If I decide to pull out of the market (i.e. stop selling my wares) and they come back, then whatever. That's how free markets work.



It's funny when people call me a troll with "intellectually sounding" arguments, because I'm direct, blunt, and not ashamed of calling people out on bulls**t. I guess Googling results, fully reading through topics, and posting articles that support my claims makes me a passive-aggressive troll that only sounds intellectual.

Hey, may I direct you to another Wikipedia article? It's called the ad hominem attack.

Hmm, is somebody typing something? Must be my imagination.

[ChickNorris]

I am going to undercut cobalt arrows tomorrow due to this thread annoying me.

[Momita]

Prices going down!??? Whaatrrt? A food cost 14-20k! And I see weapons costing millions. Where are prices going down!????

after this tread Button in a blanket on my server go down from 20k to 10k D: and i'll yet undercut to 15k D:
but undercutting is normal.. if i want sell an item 10k when for produce i spent 9,9k.. i can.
and in a game if i spent 9.9k for make it i can sell it for 5k! (not smart but possible)

[Darkillumina]

On a more related topic, I think the disregard for prices in this game compared to say launch FFXI (before inflation) is that for the most part everything is easy to get and you aren't punished for being gimp like you were in FFXI. When coupled with the fact that you had to go out of your way to mine or camp something, it created a sense of value. This meant that certain goods were supplied by certain people and there was an attempt to keep prices relatively stable as it was such a pain in the butt to go out and gather/farm certain items.

In launch FFXI there were people who specialized in mining, people who specialized in a certain craft and people who worked hard to camp certain items. This created a co-dependency in the market in which led to a very pleasing sense of belonging to all who worked in the community. It worked great for about 1.5 years.

Of course this got to the point where things began to spiral out of control because there just wasn't enough gear and supplies to fill the demand which is one of the myriad reasons why prices got out of control in 2006.

Regardless I think FFXIV is heading towards a nice compromise with their current crafting system, especially with the introduction of difficult synths, such as the darksteel gear. Darksteel is hard to produce and accordingly, we crafters who have the time and patience to craft said gear are able to charge prices in accordance with the time and resources we waste crafting said item. At the same time there is still fantastic gear available such as AF and cobalt, which are more readily available and provides an option for those who cannot afford to part with 5 million gil for a body-piece.

Of course since this was just implemented we still see the rampant undercutting as a symptom of the player-base which it is to a certain extent. However since everything is still quite easily obtainable there is little value placed on anything. This is beginning to change as stated in the previous paragraph with the introduction of difficult synths. If gathering begins to change in a certain way akin to FFXI's gathering system we could see the same begin to occur with raw materials. Again, this seems to be a pleasing compromise between the difficulty and exclusivity of FFXI's system and the current FFXIV system.

That being said a caveat to all. Undercutting is ok if done sensibly. But stop and think before you undercut. If there is only 2 items on the AH for 100k don't undercut it to 20k just because you were too lazy to check the history. Undercut tastefully. I've mastered this and profit handsomely and quickly.

Of course as a crafter I just sell double melds and avoid most of this entirely. =)

[Laraul]

If you don't want to be undercut, then sell everything you have for 00001 gil! Surprised no one has suggested SE just make this the limit you can sell stuff for so everyone will be equal at the wards! If anything just to show that THINGS COULD BE A LOT LOT WORSE.

Can't believe how long this thread is? I thought it was two pages when I clicked reply... then I posted and found out it there we're 7 additional pages. Did anyone think to look at this from a buyers perspective?

[Achtzen]

If you don't want to be undercut, then sell everything you have for 00001 gil! Surprised no one has suggested SE just make this the limit you can sell stuff for so everyone will be equal at the wards! If anything just to show that THINGS COULD BE A LOT LOT WORSE.

Can't believe how long this thread is? I thought it was two pages when I clicked reply... then I posted and found out it there we're 7 additional pages. Did anyone think to look at this from a buyers perspective?

No one cares about the buyer.

[RoosterAgathos]

honestly is there nothing ffxiv players wont complain about?

Its a player created economy We have no one to blame but ourselves.. (if you think there is a problem.)

I say it again. If someone is undercutting you its because your items are over priced. If someone can sell it for less and still make a profit then you are operating on pure greed.

[Mortikhan]

Having either an AH or Market wards isn't going to change or stop people from competing/"undercutting" prices. I don't see a any problem from the current system aside the inability to selectively/filter search for either +1 or normal goods.



Easier to craft HQ gear yes. But the availability of HQ materials and how many beneficial materia are melded is where the greatest risk is and it significantly affect its final selling price. That is where the money lies regardless of the number of crafters in game. Greater risks reap greater rewards. You can name your price on that regardless of what the current market is for that item.

Sadly you don't see a lot of this anyway as crafter's tend to produce the HQ item without attachments and don't risk any loss and just sell it and leave it to the buyer to take the risk afterwards.

The risk is there, people don't tend to take it and take the loss.

I disagree on the first point. The original MWs were about what you were willing to pay. If you did not like the price you saw they you shopped around a bit more to find a better price. If you were lazy then you burned a whole lot of gil. Now the system is price comparison without ever setting foot in the wards. Is it easier and faster for the buyer? Absolutely. Is it much harder to snipe at your prices as a seller? Definitely. I have no issue with them doing that but I have no real cause or need to use the MWs other than a convenience for something really inexpensive that is easy to farm up that I would rather just buy and be done with. I just did not want the "lounging around at the AH waiting for a good deal to pop up" mentality I saw in FFXI. An AH in any game should not be the focal point of the game. I know I am in the minority for that opinion but hey whatever .

On your second point...it would make and will make more sense when people can put their name on the gear as a crafter. You buy a piece of my gear for example and my name is on it then you know who to contact for seating materia if you are not a crafter yourself. Repeat business is always a good thing . Other than that I can see why they don't do that. Because you never know what people have and what materia they want in that gear. What is useful materia to you might be the complete opposite for someone else looking to build another way.

[Ragz]

Making money is a skill. If making money is easy, then money would be worthless.
Getting undercut is annoying but it's a essential part of (mostly) free economy in MMO. If you don't want deal with it then you should find some other ways to make money, such as specialize in forbidden materia gears.