So, when is VPR getting nerfs? (Frontline)

[Ankhira]

I don't play CC but I just had a FL match with a Viper doing 7457120 damage??

Proof:

This is purely about FL, I don't care how it performs in CC, this job is tankier than most tanks, does massive AoE dmg for literally 0 effort, you have nerfed jobs just for FL for less yet VPR keeps going unchanged?

Yes, I played VPR. My first match on VPR yesterday, I had NO clue what I was doing and still 2 million damage. The job is not hard to play at all.

It's even worse when they're a premade, they had a DNC constantly ulting for them, a PLD covering them constantly, we had almost our entire alliance focusing him and they were able to just keep tanking everything.

Idk anymore, really, I'm not against premades but it's hard to keep defending it when cases like this keep happening where they pick the most overpowered jobs, pair it with other jobs to make their lives easier and make the entire match unfun for everyone else

You have shown in the past you are capable of making changes to specific jobs in FL if need be, and maybe I am just frustrated because I'm lowkey tired of this job but man, with these battle high changes you can't even punish them for being too greedy or making a mistake so like, meh

[TofuLove]

I agree that viper needs a % nerf in frontline. But more than that Bravery needs a huge nerf.

[Anwar]

just started viper pvp a few days ago. Viper needs a nerf? you need the reaction time and situastional awarness of a military ai processor. And your so fragile a simple slap can kill you, your soul. and prevent you from reincarnating the next 5 lives over. Playing one so far has humiliated me so far i feel like the enemy's team little play toy every match. Just cc'ed to oblivion and nuked out of orbit. Huge win to viper players skilled at this omg almighty.

[TofuLove]

just started viper pvp a few days ago. Viper needs a nerf? you need the reaction time and situastional awarness of a military ai processor. And your so fragile a simple slap can kill you, your soul. and prevent you from reincarnating the next 5 lives over. Playing one so far has humiliated me so far i feel like the enemy's team little play toy every match. Just cc'ed to oblivion and nuked out of orbit. Huge win to viper players skilled at this omg almighty.

Yes. It needs a nerf in frontline. https://x.com/i/status/2054650725825704095

It has damage reduction of 60%. Literally more than any other class, so no, it's not fragile at all. On top of it all, it has ability that soaks cc and damage and loads of skills to recover health.

But again. Bravery needs a bigger nerf.

[Zeovalguar]

Just had a frontline match where blue team had a good bunch of vipers, yellow too. Literally unkillable (and they didn't have any BH yet), and a RPR or DNC lb could only help so much. Not even 4 minutes in and blue already had 900 points, yellow 340 and red... we didn't even have 200. Fix this broken job already, for the twelve's sake. It makes pvp unplayable and unenjoyable more than it already was.

[Valence]

Job probably needs to be toned down, and bravery restricted to self use (it's completely silly combined with other role actions on melees). But the main issue is exactly like in CC at low level: people hard focus into tanks with their defensives up and complain it's broken.

It's also latency dependent, which means players with good ping will scale bomb into LB and that can delete squishies instantly. Imagine if they're grouped together...

All of this to say, I don't understand why VPR DR in FL is so high, but I'd be cautious with the true culprit, which is namely, role actions. Since their introduction to the mode they've generated imbalances so crazy on melees that it can be abused to death. Rampart, Rampage, Bloodbath (which they buffed last patch LOL)... And Bravery from pocket rphys players. It breaks a gamemode that was already borderline broken.

[MisterNublet]

All of this to say, I don't understand why VPR DR in FL is so high.

Because they effectively stunlock themselves for four seconds whenever they use Snake Scales which making them an easy target to focus fire and time the slew of CC PvP jobs have. Even with the FL's DR and Snake Scales DR, an alliance full of BH3-5s can still 100 -> 0 a scales VPR in less than four seconds.

They've had 60% DR since patch 7.2. Y'all never complained about it then. It's only an issue now because they buffed leech abilities. So now ranged players are crying that a melee job finally stopped being a free kill. The amount of times I've seen range players cry because a 0 damage, 0 kills - 10 death PLD or DRK popped their LB to escape a 24v1 is staggering. That's a good thing, as it means their not doing anything with it during a team fight (not that they would have done much anyway to begin with). But the point is, anything that slightly inconveniences range players is a problem, because they refuse to adapt or put in any effort.

but I'd be cautious with the true culprit, which is namely, role actions. Since their introduction to the mode they've generated imbalances so crazy on melees that it can be abused to death. Rampart, Rampage, Bloodbath (which they buffed last patch LOL)... And Bravery from pocket rphys players. It breaks a gamemode that was already borderline broken.

God forbid players work together in a team based mode. There is a reason why they keep buffing melee survivability, while increasing melee job's ranged capabilities, because melee is trash without them.

[MisterNublet]

I don't play CC but I just had a FL match with a Viper doing 7457120 damage??

Proof:

This is purely about FL, I don't care how it performs in CC, this job is tankier than most tanks, does massive AoE dmg for literally 0 effort, you have nerfed jobs just for FL for less yet VPR keeps going unchanged?

Yes, I played VPR. My first match on VPR yesterday, I had NO clue what I was doing and still 2 million damage. The job is not hard to play at all.

It's even worse when they're a premade, they had a DNC constantly ulting for them, a PLD covering them constantly, we had almost our entire alliance focusing him and they were able to just keep tanking everything.

Idk anymore, really, I'm not against premades but it's hard to keep defending it when cases like this keep happening where they pick the most overpowered jobs, pair it with other jobs to make their lives easier and make the entire match unfun for everyone else

You have shown in the past you are capable of making changes to specific jobs in FL if need be, and maybe I am just frustrated because I'm lowkey tired of this job but man, with these battle high changes you can't even punish them for being too greedy or making a mistake so like, meh

This is a nothing burger.

Any job can be effective when their team actually plays like a team, and has assistance from support jobs.

I've had recent matches with a DRG that had >50 kills, 0 deaths >10m damage. A NIN that had just as many kill, no deaths and >8m damage. Even seen a SMN do the same. PLDs and DRKs with damage in the 5-6m range.

Guess all these jobs need nerfs too?

The tankiness that VPR has that you all are crying about... It's had that since patch 7.2. The damage on its snake scales, that was from patch 7.3.

You're all hyper fixated on VPR because some trash ranged job player started crying that the job went from a free kill after using snake scales like it was before this patch, because they gave it a leech effect on its LB.

[Scintilla]

I don't play CC but I just had a FL match with a Viper doing 7457120 damage??

Proof:

First of all, cropping out a single scoreboard entry and saying "Look how broken this is!" removes all context and overlooks the many factors which influence a game.

For example:
Game length - Long games will lead to higher damage which wouldn't be achieved in a regular game. That wouldn't only apply to VPR but to all classes. I can go and find a full-time game scoreboard and pick any high damage number, single it out amongst the others, post it here and go 'Look - broken!'.



Hey, if we're calling to nerf VPR into oblivion, lets just do the same for these, right?

Map - Some maps lend themselves to higher damage than others, due to objective positioning, map design etc. A game that is almost entirely Onsal mid, for example, is likely to result in some pretty big damage numbers for all classes so long as the player chooses to spend their game engaging at that mid zone throughout the game.

Team support - Whether as premade or random, if the team is coordinating, providing support and backup and playing aggressively, again, survivability will increase and damage will increase.

Player ability - 7m is a pretty good score. It's likely to be a player who plays FL regularly, knows what they're doing, and is playing very well. Such good scores can be achieved by other classes (as shown in the examples above) under the right circumstances with a good player behind them. However, you'll find the vast majority of casual players will never achieve such a score if playing the class themselves. If you wish to close off the class to most casuals (like DRK has been) and have it exclusively of use to regulars and premade teams, by all means nerf it down.

Enemy ability- VPR thrives on an uncoordinated enemy team. Some games can be pretty easy and low effort because of how poor the enemy is: they just run, rather than fight back. They're split on managing it, with half on attack-mode and half on ignore-mode. They're spamming the keyboard blindly without putting thought into their actions. All of these make a VPRs job pretty easy and beyond easy if they have a supportive team that backs them up and multiple VPRs within their alliance to share the counters and damage.
Other games are not quite so straightfoward. Other games you will be against enemies who are coordinated, you will have individuals within those teams who will blindly focus their counters on you, especially if you are the only VPR in the alliance to take it and/or are becoming a particular nuisance to them. It can vary wildly.

Yes, I played VPR. My first match on VPR yesterday, I had NO clue what I was doing and still 2 million damage. The job is not hard to play at all.

One game isn't enough to judge by, as described above. And, as said, it also depends on who else you may have had in your team. For example, as a regular FL player, I tend to quickly recognise familiar veteran players (often friends) who I often see within FLs and who I know will make themselves a headache to me and my team. If they're giving me a harder time than you are, there is no doubt that I will be focusing my attention on countering them rather than you - VPR or not.

It's even worse when they're a premade, they had a DNC constantly ulting for them, a PLD covering them constantly, we had almost our entire alliance focusing him and they were able to just keep tanking everything.

This bit I understand and it does add context that was missing from the image to explain the high damage:

They had a DNC in the team to give them Bravery, Closed Position (Dance partner), and heals and the buffs that come with those. They also had a PLD, increasing the enemies damage taken and to cover the VPR if things start to go a bit too risky. From that team description alone, part of me can already take a decent guess as to who the player is (as they often play with this set format), though it could be wrong as it's a team format that technically anyone could copy and apply.

Yes, a few tweaks could be made here and there, there's no denying. The recent Bloodbath and LB change has boosted VPR from what was already a good, strong class. I agree with other posters here that Bravery could be adjusted to only be applied to the ranged user themselves, rather than it being able to be used on others - that said, I wouldn't be furious if such a change wasn't made because it could just be argued to be good player cooperation, I just feel it would be beneficial if it was altered. And finally PLD cover is probably the biggest challenge, limiting the effects of counters and giving the covered player a few seconds of invincibility if PLD LB is up. It can be more tricky to counter in such a setup and stopping the PLD early would be a helpful start, leaving the VPR to survive the team with only the DNC buffs and their own. Yes, it's more of a challenge, but by no means impossible - it just requires the enemy team to make maximum use of their skills. Unfortunately, in casual teams, many of whom have little/no care of PvP, that doesn't happen.

Idk anymore, really, I'm not against premades but it's hard to keep defending it when cases like this keep happening where they pick the most overpowered jobs, pair it with other jobs to make their lives easier and make the entire match unfun for everyone else

When you play in a team full of regulars (some organised PvP event, for example), you tend see certain premades less because they don't get away with their playstyle so well, as the enemy knows better how to manage it. Adjustments can be made here and there, definitely, but their biggest strength is their enemy's lack of ability. But rather than recognise that and try to change things, many will just default to 'who cares anyway? I'm only here for my exp'. A self-fulfilling prophecy: they expect to lose, so they don't try, so they do lose. On repeat.

[Scintilla]

just started viper pvp a few days ago. Viper needs a nerf? you need the reaction time and situastional awarness of a military ai processor. And your so fragile a simple slap can kill you, your soul. and prevent you from reincarnating the next 5 lives over. Playing one so far has humiliated me so far i feel like the enemy's team little play toy every match. Just cc'ed to oblivion and nuked out of orbit. Huge win to viper players skilled at this omg almighty.

Keep going, don't give up

FLs needs more people willing to try the melee classes to lead the charge; to tank for and protect their teams. Just by giving a frontline role a go, you're already a step ahead of most players.

There will be mistakes and some very painful games, given you're not likely to get much backup support from the randoms in your team (unfortunately, that's just how games are at the moment...), but there will be good ones too. And, for tips and advice for any class, there will be lots of online guides and PvP communities out there to help.

You'll be hitting that 7m before you know it!