Devolved jobs will kill this game.

[WaxSw]

Also this talking point about nothing changing after release, is simply wrong. They have changed jobs after the fact.

Unless something major happens they keep most of the gameplay changes to expansion releases... And even there its a gamble as the 6+ years of unheard healer feedback proves

[Bru_Tus]

Oh look, another person that doesn't do high end content.
Its not about IQ, there's just a genuine lack of experience.
Yes, you can still be someone that likes to optimize and min-max your damage even as someone that just does roulettes, but its not the same as experiencing the jobs and going through the process of optimization while doing Savage and Ultimate content.

There's things you won't learn normally outside of those environments and there's plenty that just copying a rotation off of The Balance doesnt teach you.

Buddy, in DT there's next to nothing to optimize other than farming crits in a parse party.

[Bru_Tus]

Given that we know they are in the process of designing the jobs and nothing is really set in stone yet, we'll see.

I'd also like to point out that most mechanics players complain about today were asked for by players before. Especially the 2 minutes meta because of the state of jobs in HW and SB. Player feedback is weird to naviguate.
(and also these forums are cheeks to gather feedback and need any form of update, but that's another matter).

The 2-min meta IMO is mostly the result of purple/low orange players whining. Half the reason we're in this mess is because those purple players think it's the game's fault they can't get 99. Back in SB if you had the skill you can trivially get a 99 without any crit farming, without padding, in just a few pulls. People cry about how top players were all padded back then, but that's only valid for the top 10 or so. Plenty of people reach t20 with no padding, by just being a good player. And people who did not have the skill will never get a 99 no matter what. Back then basically everyone at the top are also consistently at the top, and even mega ultra padding only gets you to t20 if you're already a 97/98th percentile player. Well now, everyone can get a 99 by just crit farming. The most obvious symptom of this is that medians have dramatically fallen since SB. Back then top players pretty much all have 97-99 medians. Now it's like 90 lmao. What does that tell you? It tells you that damage now comes primarily from crit luck than from actual skill. It's an utterly pathetic state of affairs. Any ShB/EW/DT baby who thinks "optimizing" Savage/Ultimate content in 2026 is relevant is self-reporting on themselves, hard.

They should not be listening to the parse brigade for anything frankly. They unironically ruined the game. And not just the people crying in the FFLogs discord on how any particular fight's DPS should be calculated, but also the perverse mentality that started plaguing this game starting in late HW that the be-all-end-all of a good raider is their damage percentile.

[boigerking]

Is really the bar for many so low that they are willing to defend a mediocre product today under their own assumption that it will be good some time in the future?

A mediocre product? Are you referring to the game right now or evolved mode? Because as it stands right now, i'm happy with the game! It has issues, i'm not blind to them, but I love playing this game! I have faith in the development team that they're going to create something atleast interesting, and at most, a fun new combat system.

I'm asking why a player who DOES NOT trust the dev team as to why they should care about the game at all.
We'll see if any of this whining and complaining does any good by Berlin fanfest. Maybe they'll scrap evolved mode entirely to please people who assume it's going to be bad before they even get ahold of it themself.

[Bru_Tus]

Something I feel like people are neglecting to acknowledge is that they are preparing for another 10 years of gameplay. Each expansion is going to add new buttons and abilities to the jobs. They pretty much had to rework the fundamentals of job design and button amounts to accommodate the increase in skills we will be given over the course of the next 3 expansions - or more. So yes, the evolved jobs will probably have about the equivalent to current level 50 buttons available...for now at level 110. This allows them to actually add new abilities and buttons for each expansion again. It's a soft reset, and it is needed. The button bloat for most jobs is just horrendous at level 100, most MMOs do NOT have or need that many buttons to be fun and engaging, for a reason. Now, new expansions have room to come up with new and unique combos and abilities again, not just upgrading a single attack to something else because there's so much button bloat they literally couldn't add anything else.

We've heard that since ShB with MCH lmfao.

[Rein_eon_Osborne]

[...]If you do not have faith in the development team for this game then I don't understand why anyone with that mindset would still be subbed.

Easy.

I like the world building of FFXIV (then they killed my enthusiasm with 6.1-7.1 writing), and still like it enough to stick around & hope they can hook me back in.
I like to play and/or chill with my circles. In a way FFXIV has become a 'cheap cafe' to me: they serve not-so-good dishes but becomes tolerable or enjoyable with good friends around.
I however dislike the direction and their trajectory in regards to job gameplay. Specifically my main role.

All these sentiments can coexists. They're not mutually exclusive. Is it so hard to understand? Do people need to be 101% happy to consume a product or something?

[Bru_Tus]

I'm asking why a player who DOES NOT trust the dev team as to why they should care about the game at all.
We'll see if any of this whining and complaining does any good by Berlin fanfest. Maybe they'll scrap evolved mode entirely to please people who assume it's going to be bad before they even get ahold of it themself.

I don't know if you realize just how many players quit in DT. Probably half the people still subbed are just subbed for (E)RPing ngl.

[boigerking]

All these sentiments can coexists. They're not mutually exclusive. Is it so hard to understand? Do people need to be 101% happy to consume a product or something?

Oh absolutely, but you claim to have hope they can rope you back in. There's a lot people are allowed to be frustrated at with the game but the person I was quoting in my post made it sound like they *do not have faith* and haven't had faith in a long time. That is why I was asking why they were still subbed.

[Turtledeluxe]

Unless something major happens they keep most of the gameplay changes to expansion releases... And even there its a gamble as the 6+ years of unheard healer feedback proves

WHM Evolved is a laughable pass on player feedback afaik as a non healer. This is the man who made default AST. These two things tell us Yoshi P is likely dictating how healers play. Prime knows how to give jobs identity but it seems crystal clear its all passing some kind of filter, whether its Yoshi P, player data, feedback, or all of the above. In any case, if you believe forums will magically make WHM totally different in 6 months when they have ignored us for 5 years, I am not telling you to shut up I am telling you the odds of that are 0.00001%. But you are welcome to push back. I say let them release their SMN lego DPS and get roasted.

Plus its like, everything has been said I think. At this point its been the same talks over and over and people are just debating whether it will kill the game or not. If DT did not kill it I have news, nothing will. And if Evolved flops, it will just go away. SMN is one of the least played jobs. If they are using it as a model they deserve failure.

I don't know if you realize just how many players quit in DT. Probably half the people still subbed are just subbed for (E)RPing ngl.

Right its like..you guys are threatening with what has already happened. People already quit over jobs, starting in like 2024. The game is already stale and boring for most people who play. Evolved legitimately cant make it worse if Reborn is still in the game.

[Bru_Tus]

WHM Evolved is a laughable pass on player feedback afaik as a non healer. This is the man who made default AST. These two things tell us Yoshi P is likely dictating how healers play. Prime knows how to give jobs identity but it seems crystal clear its all passing some kind of filter, whether its Yoshi P, player data, feedback, or all of the above. In any case, if you believe forums will magically make WHM totally different in 6 months when they have ignored us for 5 years, I am not telling you to shut up I am telling you the odds of that are 0.00001%. But you are welcome to push back. I say let them release their SMN lego DPS and get roasted.

Plus its like, everything has been said I think. At this point its been the same talks over and over and people are just debating whether it will kill the game or not. If DT did not kill it I have news, nothing will. And if Evolved flops, it will just go away. SMN is one of the least played jobs. If they are using it as a model they deserve failure.



Right its like..you guys are threatening with what has already happened. People already quit over jobs, starting in like 2024. The game is already stale and boring for most people who play. Evolved legitimately cant make it worse if Reborn is still in the game.

I don't think the idea that we need to evolve jobs is bad personally. It's just done, at least from what I've seen so far, in such an.... uninspired way. But I do disagree that things couldn't get worse, because evolved jobs are going to be the meta in high-end content. If they really screw evolved jobs big time, I can see the next exodus happening.

You're probably right about the filter though. I still remember that live letter (or interview or something) where they said that their playtesters are people who literally struggle healing through the Heroes' Gauntlet or some shit like that. This game probably unironically has to cater to that kind of player in all of its aspects.