What exactly did the improved encounter design do?

[Ankhira]

We saw improved encounter design in the early dungeons and some of the leveling dungeons but after the haunted mansion dungeon and people complained it was too hard we saw a drastic revert back to EW dungeon design.

Personally I don't see the issue with this, it's not like you're going to spend 4+ hours every day spamming the same dungeon as opposed to raiding. I think dungeons are fine as they are, personally. They could have more fun and engaging mechanics, though. But the difficulty is fine where it's at.

[Kaurhz]

I honestly think beyond a certain point people just need to accept that how the trajectory is for the current dungeons is probably less to do with them trying to appease people that complained that it was too hard, and more just they simply cannot consistently design 'good' encounters at a normal mode difficulty.

[RaionKansen]

At first it was supposed to be coming in 7.0, then that got corrected to mean that it is supposed to be coming in 7.2.

We now have half an expansion's worth of "improved encounter design", but genuinely, how the hell is this any different than before? Take the latest extreme trial for example. Nothing in that fight is novel, other than arguably yet another round of dynamo vs chariot, but you add a wild charge to it. And the rest of the fight is genuinely not even worth mentioning. It's 2026 and we still can't move beyond the pair/light-party read-the-mechanic-name-to-resolve-correctly paradigm. In Stormblood, the devs actually tried new things out, like Byakko's orb dodges, even if it was gimmicky.

The newest dungeon is even worse. It's almost like we have regressed since 7.0. Compare the 7.5 dungeon to Tender Valley. Tender Valley actually dared to stack multiple mechanics together (for example, bombs through pipes + spreads) and is faster-paced than whatever snoozefest there was in 7.5 -- puppet manipulation is a literal 11-second cast.

As for the Savages, I see we have just completely given up on anything other than "figure out what debuffs you have, then go to the assigned spot for your role/debuff". It was first novel in A8S and O4S, maybe O12S, but it's like we literally cannot design anything other than memorize-the-spot/use-a-second-monitor Hello World-style mechanics for the last turn. Well, I guess this time it has the barest of camouflage, in that instead of the debuffs appearing on your status bar, you have a clone storing your "debuff". *clap*

So when I see people being hyped by 8.0, I really have to wonder what the hell SE has done in the last two expansions to deserve any benefit of the doubt? Don't get me wrong, the evolved job concept can in principle be the shakeup that FF14 needs, and this time it actually looks meatier than all of the 'promises' they gave in the last two expansions. But we have, at this point, a decade of "shakeups" that pan out to be nothing consequential.

What content did you complete this expansion? The last 2 tiers of savage are some of the best content we've ever had

[Bru_Tus]

The last 2 tiers of savage are some of the best content we've ever had

Dunno about cruiserweight but there's nothing interesting going on in the latest tier. Idyllic for example is just an insanely drawn out Hello World-style mechanic. It's honestly as Supersnow says, most of you people saying "it's the best content we've ever had" haven't even played before EW, maybe ShB.

[Bru_Tus]

I honestly think beyond a certain point people just need to accept that how the trajectory is for the current dungeons is probably less to do with them trying to appease people that complained that it was too hard, and more just they simply cannot consistently design 'good' encounters at a normal mode difficulty.

Not sure if they're even trying these days. I think they really believe that once you found a working formula you can stick to it for decades, as if it's a fried chicken recipe.

[Daralii]

Not sure if they're even trying these days. I think they really believe that once you found a working formula you can stick to it for decades, as if it's a fried chicken recipe.

I think Yoshida or Nakagawa said somewhat recently (by CS3 standards, so maybe 6-8 months ago) that they're so pressed for time that the departments can't communicate to even start working on new ideas, so the marching orders are just to stick to what they know. The fact that they're deviating from that to the degree that they seem to be has me curious about Evercold, at least.

[RaionKansen]

Dunno about cruiserweight but there's nothing interesting going on in the latest tier. Idyllic for example is just an insanely drawn out Hello World-style mechanic. It's honestly as Supersnow says, most of you people saying "it's the best content we've ever had" haven't even played before EW, maybe ShB.

Are you like, hiding what your main account is or is this just ragebait?

What content have you actually done.

[Coolyy]

Are you like, hiding what your main account is or is this just ragebait?

What content have you actually done.

I feel like you're the one ragebaiting here since he's completely right from a raider perspective.

Cruiserweight is definitely one of the greatest tiers ever, it's undebatable, but Heavyweight is a notable downgrade and the general perception is that it's a fairly lower quality than Cruiserweight. I would honestly say Light-Heavyweight is better even if it way easier since M1S is much better than M9S, M2S is harder than M10S and M4S is harder and more interesting than M12S. Heavyweight is closer to Anabaseios than Cruiserweight, and Anabaseios is not bad just inconsistent which is the same problem here.

Idyllic is also not this giga-complex mechanic that raiders wish it was. It's always stack defam stack defam or defam stack defam stack. There's no other variation besides defam and stack, which is boring. There could've been so much more variation to part of the mechanic. The tower phase is really cool, it's the best part of the fight. The second half of Idyllic is not fast enough, they give you way too much time for the mechanics particularly when you have to dodge. Idyllic felt more like them showcasing "yeah we can still make cool fourth floor mechanics" rather than being this actual amazing mechanic. It's a really cool puzzle mechanic that was awesome to learn during the early weeks, but the actual execution is undercooked and way too simple for a Fourth Floor. It's very similar to the Pandaemonium Phase 2s in that regard. Three whole minutes setting up mechanics and then one minute actually doing it is engaging design if the one minute is not super engaging. If a mechanic takes three whole minutes to set up that one minute of gameplay needs to be the hardest Savage gameplay in the entire game, which it's not even close to that. It'll probably get improved on a lot in Ultimate, but right now there's so much better Savage mechanics not even exclusive to Fourth Floor. Bru compared it to Hello World which is absolutely a more engaging and scary mechanic and doesn't need three minutes of set-up to achieve these qualities because the gameplay is interesting. O12S is a much better fight than M12S, this is probably the weakest 12 of all time honestly.

Again I'm not saying it's a bad tier, it's simply not one of the greatest tiers of all time by any means. I can literally see the first Evercold tier being an improvement if they lock in.

[Ankhira]

I feel like you're the one ragebaiting here, he's completely right.

Cruiserweight is definitely one of the greatest tiers ever, it's undebatable, but Heavyweight is a notable downgrade and lower quality than the other greatest tiers ever. I would honestly say Light-Heavyweight is better even if it was very easy. It's closer to Anabaseios than Cruiserweight.

Are you like, hiding what your main account is or is this just ragebait?

What content have you actually done.

Just because someone disagree's doesn't mean they're ragebaiting.

[Coolyy]

Just because someone disagree's doesn't mean they're ragebaiting.

The problem is that they said someone else was ragebaiting for bothering to give an explanation why Idyllic Dream isn't like the greatest mechanic of all time in Savage.

I don't know how Heavyweight is "some of the best content" when Alphascape, Eden's Gate, Eden's Eternity and Cruiserweight all exist and are far more consistent tiers. Heavyweight has M9S and M12S and they are both underwhelming relative to their floor. M10S and M11S really carry the load here since they are great fights. They should always try to make the final tier harder than the second one, they clearly didn't try to with Heavyweight.