Halmarut's True Intention

[VeyaAkemi]

You have to realize that the Solstice isn’t something to “fix” like the Final Days.

You are talking with a whole lot of confidence about a phenomenon we know absolutely nothing about the inner workings of, we literally only know why it is happening, what will be the outcome of it if it comes to pass, and what is a grim yet sureproof way to stop it.

[DRKoftheAzure]

I'm going to take a shot in the dark and say that Halmarut is lying because they need to do so, so that they can revive Zodiark... basically pulling a Lahabrea...

Almost forgot to mention that Ascians are NOT above possessing people, DEAD OR ALIVE...

[Supersnow845]

I'm going to take a shot in the dark and say that Halmarut is lying because they need to do so, so that they can revive Zodiark... basically pulling a Lahabrea...

Almost forgot to mention that Ascians are NOT above possessing people, DEAD OR ALIVE...

Zodiark is gone, the ancients that made up Zodiark have been released back into the Lifestream

There is nothing to revive and no benefit to sacrificing people to remake an imitation Zodiark

[DRKoftheAzure]

Zodiark is gone, the ancients that made up Zodiark have been released back into the Lifestream

There is nothing to revive and no benefit to sacrificing people to remake an imitation Zodiark

You need to remember that the Ascians are tempered, see Lahabrea, Elidbus, Emet-Selch, that one Ascian that got his own Trial in A Realm Reborn until we made him go poof, that one Ascian that fought alongside Lahabrea that one time in that one Dungeon in Heavensward before we her go poof followed by Thordan making Lahabrea go poof, that one Ascian that was responsible for The First's flood of light that also was creeping on Gaia, and even Fandaniel to some extent, even though he was probably butthurt that he didn't become Zodiark in the first place...

And the tempered only care about summoning/reviving their Primal, tempering others who have yet to be tempered with their Primals, and doing whatever else the Primal says while said Primal is still summoned... and they will lie, cheat, and steal to do ALL of those that I just mentioned...

[Supersnow845]

You need to remember that the Ascians are tempered, see Lahabrea, Elidbus, Emet-Selch, that one Ascian that got his own Trial in A Realm Reborn until we made him go poof, that one Ascian that fought alongside Lahabrea that one time in that one Dungeon in Heavensward before we her go poof followed by Thordan making Lahabrea go poof, that one Ascian that was responsible for The First's flood of light that also was creeping on Gaia, and even Fandaniel to some extent, even though he was probably butthurt that he didn't become Zodiark in the first place...

And the tempered only care about summoning/reviving their Primal, tempering others who have yet to be tempered with their Primals, and doing whatever else the Primal says while said Primal is still summoned... and they will lie, cheat, and steal to do ALL of those that I just mentioned...

I am at least 87% sure there is no dialogue to imply the ascians are tempered especially considering the unsundered literally invented tempering

The blessing is a form of tempering as it’s essentially a “if you are under my influence you can’t be under anyone else’s” but haedalyn bestows it to those who awake to the echo and it doesn’t strip free will

Zodiark has never been implied to have similar

[VeyaAkemi]

I am at least 87% sure there is no dialogue to imply the ascians are tempered especially considering the unsundered literally invented tempering

Emet does claim he is tempered at one point during Shadowbringers, which always struck odd to me since the Echo is supposed to shield someone from Tempering, and all Ascians have the Echo, since all Ancients did, though it could also be dismissed with the angle that unsundered Zodiark was simply a big enough deal that he could Temper someone through the normal defenses.

Regardless, Halmarut wouldn't be tempered, because all Ascians besides the Unsundered actually died and were reborn as new people, and the reincarnation process would have scrubbed their souls clean of aetheric corruption even if it was there, it's the whole reason Fandaniel was able to go rogue, and he actively plotted to kill Zodiark.

[MikkoAkure]

Emet does claim he is tempered at one point during Shadowbringers, which always struck odd to me since the Echo is supposed to shield someone from Tempering, and all Ascians have the Echo, since all Ancients did, though it could also be dismissed with the angle that unsundered Zodiark was simply a big enough deal that he could Temper someone through the normal defenses.

I think you’re mixing up the Echo with the Traveler’s Ward. The ward is what provides protection from aetheric corruption, not the Echo, so the Unsundered wouldn’t have had that.

But yeah, Emet-Selch outright states he is tempered and that it was inevitable due to the sheer amount of aether coming off Zodiark that his own would be skewed towards His. And then it was confirmed (though understated) by Livingway in EW. There’s no reason to doubt Emet-Selch and lying about being tempered serves absolutely no purpose to him, the story, or the player watching the story.

The Unsundered being tempered wouldn’t have made them drooling slaves like Ifrit’s tempered for example, but I think it did tug on them to keep continuing The Plan over the course of 13,000 years whenever they began to waver.

The blessing is a form of tempering as it’s essentially a “if you are under my influence you can’t be under anyone else’s” but haedalyn bestows it to those who awake to the echo and it doesn’t strip free will

No it’s not.

This was a fringe theory in years past but was debunked in Endwalker with the “Traveler’s Ward”.

[VeyaAkemi]

I think you’re mixing up the Echo with the Traveler’s Ward. The ward is what provides protection from aetheric corruption, not the Echo, so the Unsundered wouldn’t have had that.

The thing about that is that I feel it doesn't line up with the artificial Echo that Fordola and Zenos had, and it is completely clear that Fordola is immune to Tempering, as well as clear that she has the Echo due to her visions, so unless you take a bit of a reach and assume Temu Hojo managed to unknowingly copy the Traveler's Ward when replicating the Echo, it doesn't rightly line up, does it? the introduction of the Traveler's Ward just feels like a retcon, tied to their goal to de-mysticize the Echo in post-ShB and EW.

Regardless, it is also briefly mentioned that Zeromus was so powerful his presence was causing Warding Scales to break down and that they would not hold up indefinitely, so the idea that aetheric corruption powerful enough that it bypasses any forms of protection isn't a reach either way, even if the Ancients took every precaution they could've taken before attempting the summoning.

[MikkoAkure]

The thing about that is that I feel it doesn't line up with the artificial Echo that Fordola and Zenos had, and it is completely clear that Fordola is immune to Tempering, as well as clear that she has the Echo due to her visions, so unless you take a bit of a reach and assume Temu Hojo managed to unknowingly copy the Traveler's Ward when replicating the Echo, it doesn't rightly line up, does it? the introduction of the Traveler's Ward just feels like a retcon, tied to their goal to de-mysticize the Echo in post-ShB and EW.

The Echo grants you access to Hydaelyn’s answering machine, which is what grants you the Blessing/Traveler’s Ward. I see no reason why the Resonant wouldn’t grant the same access to hear Her and be granted the same benefits.

[DRKoftheAzure]

Regardless, Halmarut wouldn't be tempered, because all Ascians besides the Unsundered actually died and were reborn as new people, and the reincarnation process would have scrubbed their souls clean of aetheric corruption even if it was there, it's the whole reason Fandaniel was able to go rogue, and he actively plotted to kill Zodiark.

Not that it would stop the Unsundered from tempering the Sundered over and over again...

In fact, I think that Fandaniel PROBABLY got killed, reincarnated, and tempered too many times, that he saw an opportunity to become truly one with Zodiark thanks to Fandaniels ego that was too big for his trousers... And ego DOES play some part in tempering process if I remember correctly...