Evolved BRD ?

[StarryVera]

This is the correct way of viewing things imo.

On a side note: it seems like the people here losing their minds and complaining about the Evolved mode *looking* too simple, are forgetting they have the option to stick with Reborn Mode.

How is it the correct way to look at this at all? BRD has always since its inception, been the supporting, buffing, job. Mage's in ARR specifically LOWERED the BRDs damage to support the party. You may not like it, but BRD is the textbook support job in the game. Them moving away from it being THE SUPPORT JOB is an extreme removal of identity and more homogenization that shouldn't exist.

[Minali]

On a side note: it seems like the people here losing their minds and complaining about the Evolved mode *looking* too simple, are forgetting they have the option to stick with Reborn Mode.

This "just stick with reborn" is starting to annoy me. Has it ever occured to you that some people voice criticism and ideas for improvement because they don't want to play reborn anymore?
Many current versions of jobs have some kind of glaring issue and Bard is no exception to that. I am not speaking for everyone but personally I give feedback and suggestions for how to make it better because I am very much interested in getting rid of the old way of how songs are being handled. I want this experiment to succeed, for our sake (and also for Mr. Prime's sake tbh), otherwise the devs never dare to experiment with anything ever again. This can hardly be a thing anyone would want, even though our ideas of what might or might not be the core element of Bard might differ.

Nobody knows each job as well as the people playing it a ton and helping the devs to figure out what makes Bard Bard and how to incorporate this into their new vision is not a bad thing. Evolved mode is still in its early iterations and far from being set in stone, so it's an excellent time to tell the devs what one would like to see as a new way to play it, what one likes about it and what might even go against what they said they are aiming at. (Pun intended.)

I am sure there are many players for whom sticking with "Reborn" mode is going to be a solution they'll gladly take but trying to shut down every attempt to give the new system a chance to be an actual improvement and not just a repackaged version of the issues it already has is certainly not going to help anyone getting the rework they would like to see.

[Carighan]

and more homogenization that shouldn't exist.

How is that homogenization? Unless you mean some other game's variant of Bard like in EQ1 or so, then yeah sure that was a very unique strong support job where removing their highly unique kind of support tooling would be active homogenization.

Bard right now just.. has some damage buffs? Same as ~everybody else? It also works around a 120s burst timing window? Same as everybody else? It also has a few extra tools such as a mitigation group buff, just like quite a lot of other classes have, and multiple of them in fact more of those? What exactly is being homogenized here in removing these tools from bard?

[Valence]

Bard right now just.. has some damage buffs? Same as ~everybody else? It also works around a 120s burst timing window? Same as everybody else? It also has a few extra tools such as a mitigation group buff, just like quite a lot of other classes have, and multiple of them in fact more of those? What exactly is being homogenized here in removing these tools from bard?

And if evolved remains like what we've been shown it will also look like summoner, lose its dot management (unique today) and lose its rng procs (rare today) so you'll excuse me if I kinda struggle not to see how this new BRD isn't homogenized as hell.
Like, what's the difference with evolved dragoon? Both are sequences of combos that unlock bigger attacks.

[Xieldras]

And if evolved remains like what we've been shown it will also look like summoner, lose its dot management (unique today) and lose its rng procs (rare today) so you'll excuse me if I kinda struggle not to see how this new BRD isn't homogenized as hell.
Like, what's the difference with evolved dragoon? Both are sequences of combos that unlock bigger attacks.

One thing I noticed (on the forums as well as from my in-game entourage) is that, again, those that seem to enjoy the Evo-mode changes are, for the most part, not even Bard mains.
"It's sooo much better now! It's not homogenization!", they say as the final spine of RNG and Procs is removed entirely from the game. That's literally a gameplay style (management) being removed.

[Minali]

One thing I noticed (on the forums as well as from my in-game entourage) is that, again, those that seem to enjoy the Evo-mode changes are, for the most part, not even Bard mains.
"It's sooo much better now! It's not homogenization!", they say as the final spine of RNG and Procs is removed entirely from the game. That's literally a gameplay style (management) being removed.

I can answer this for myself at least, if that's of any help: I don't really "main" anything, but I have favourites. I started with Summoner and Ninja as my mains when Shadowbringer was current but also made an alt with Bard as her main job a few years ago. Nowadays I play Summoner whenever I play a thing for the first or second time for the raise and because I simply like throwing big flashy primals around. But on other occasions I often use to Bard because while both have quite the mobility, Bard always seemed more flexible for me, as long as I think about keeping up the songs and the dots. (I still play Ninja but way less often, I just don't feel like playing melee much lately.)

However, I didn't play anything more "hardcore" than the latest Unreal trials (except Tsukuyomi, I missed that, and I didn't have time for Shinryu yet), and there I used Summoner because I don't have the priorities for the best party synergy and the burst window internalized with Bard. So there are some merits or disadvantages of the job I might not have noticed yet. I read a thread once where someone with more experience elaborated on that but it's been a while.

So for me Bard is not the mainest main, but an almost equally often played job. I already wrote down my opinions and suggestions for improvements based on the new concept at length on the last few pages, but I guess the tl;dr would be "I think the new system has a lot of potential, but disagree with many decisions they have made for Bard specifically, including removing the procs even though they weren't the most important thing for me for me personally for Bard gameplay. They were still nice. I like what they did with the songs for the most part but wish they would be more like stances and it wouldn't be required to play all three for unlocking the big Radient thingy. Playing three songs in total, no matter which kind, would be better in my opinion."

[Karuya]

I feel like people don't really understand each others here cause i don't understand what you people are arguing about.

Not a single person here said that the new dps rotation of the evolved bard looks good, i also think that in the current state it looks "too simple", it indeed looks way too similar to summoner.

But, on the other hand, the new song system look like astronomically better than what we have literally ever seen on this game, without any doubt, and in addition to being the best support we have ever seen, those songs can be used in a different order, with a lenient and open timing.

And you people really don't seem to realize it. Like, having at the same time a 1 min shield, heal over time and sprint is unheard of on this game.

That's something that summoner absolutely doesn't have at all, so if you actually consider the "support" side, this bard has absolutely nothing in common with summoner. But indeed, dps looks the same. So in my opinion, it's really easy to adjust, we saw on the footage that when bard doesn't have an "active song"(i mean used less than 10 seconds before more or less), bard has 2 useless buttons where there is nothing. Why don't square enix use those "songless" buttons for like a dot on one of them, and a random basic proc like bard currently has on the other ? Or something else if they want, but people here seem to want those.

I'm all for more interesting dps rotation, but you people really don't seem to realize how good the new utility looks, specially because it's not for dps, it's for survival/mechanic, that is actually so cool. Finally a REAL support bard.

[StarryVera]

I'm all for more interesting dps rotation, but you people really don't seem to realize how good the new utility looks, specially because it's not for dps, it's for survival/mechanic, that is actually so cool. Finally a REAL support bard.

Sadly I can't agree with this, because the support buttons are tied exclusively to DPS. If they were separate instances that you could trigger with, for instance, new song types. Splitting the existing songs into stances (that would need to be changed from what they showed in evolved, because those are pitiful and quite literally just SMN Egi's copy pasted), and oGCD reaction/proactive buttons you press based on the mechanic coming up, fight timeline, or team comp, then it would be significantly better. Tying everything into the damage rotation makes it extremely bland and forces even more strict rotations than we have now. I specifically haven't mentioned the utility outside of it looking fairly lackluster in what they showed, because I do genuinely think its a positive.

[Carighan]

Not being restricted between your support and DPS abilities would make for an awfully boring "DPS but with strong support"-character, though.

Evidence: All current such implementations or well, what they're not, specifically.

[mallleable]

How is it the correct way to look at this at all? BRD has always since its inception, been the supporting, buffing, job. Mage's in ARR specifically LOWERED the BRDs damage to support the party. You may not like it, but BRD is the textbook support job in the game. Them moving away from it being THE SUPPORT JOB is an extreme removal of identity and more homogenization that shouldn't exist.

This bard uses a bow, so the bow play still needs to matter. It's still a DPS. This is not a bard you can just sit back, and passively play instruments while everyone else does the work. If BRD isn't supporty enough, there always the healer role.