Evolved mode concerns

[Yuella]

If you want to do team synergy, you can still raid in reborn mode. Just make a static with people who want to play in reborn mode.

[Avenheit]

There should not be a designated mt/ot role in that regard.

thats what i mean,

i'm expecting PLD to once again, do no damage.

[Vallerie]

If you want to do team synergy, you can still raid in reborn mode. Just make a static with people who want to play in reborn mode.

They said they are removing raid buffs from Reborn mode as well. So that will not be an option.

[Sarantserel]

My biggest concert with Evolved mode seems that they're removing even more points of friction from the job's rotations and are not adding anything else to replace it.

They state repeatedly that they want Evolved mode to have more freeform rotations and freedom. And while freedom CAN introduce opportunity for skill expression if it includes the need to make several moment to moment decision, making things TOO freeform can just remove any friction and instead remove any depth the job can have. The main thing I love about playing a job and mastering it is learning how to work around its friction points.

Like, looking at DRG. Having its filler being a looping rotation of 7 buttons meant you could screw it up. If you pressed the wrong button at the wrong time, you were penalized, therefore there was a reward in a higher performance for players that could do it consistently. Evolve gets rid of that friction by making all of DRG's combo repeated press of a single button.

Even for positionals. While the penalty for messing up a positional is seemingly steeper now and there's more restriction for the flank positionals, the positionals being buttons separate from your combo and thus being able to be used whenever so long as you don't overcap removes a lot of friction compared to current positionals that have a set, rigid spot in your rotation. Assuming bosses don't start jumping all over the place and turning on a dime constantly, its pretty easy to find consistent spots to safely use your positionals since you have some room to hold them for those moments rather than being forced to use them at specific point in your rotation.

[MayuAmakura]

If you want to do team synergy, you can still raid in reborn mode. Just make a static with people who want to play in reborn mode.

Ah yes, divide the dwindling playerbase even more.

[Aonns]

Novel idea. We can wait patiently for the full details and release before we doomspeak our way into skewed expectations that will taint a potentially positive change for ourselves and others.

Posting speculation at this point is just complaining for the sake of having something to complain about.

[ForsakenRoe]

so like, does paladin and the new tank (assuming its also a main tank and has counter attacks), if you roulette and get two main tanks, how much dps do they lose?

how long until dual offtank is the norm?

i'm interested in what they do but there are very very reasonable areas of concern.

I imagine the solution to prevent MTs from 'losing damage when they're not the primary target of the boss' is that Intervention (and the new Tank's equivalent) will work the same way as Sheltron when it comes to proc'ing the Parry counterattack. If you're the current lead in Emnity, you Sheltron yourself and get a parry proc for timing it right. If your co-tank is the current lead, you Intervention them and get a parry proc for timing it right. After all, Intervention currently, may as well just be 'Sheltron but you give it to someone else' in terms of how it functions

Novel idea. We can wait patiently for the full details and release before we doomspeak our way into skewed expectations that will taint a potentially positive change for ourselves and others.

Posting speculation at this point is just complaining for the sake of having something to complain about.

Alternatively, we can 'doomspeak' (aka, voice completely valid concerns) now while things are not yet set in stone, such that (if SE reads posts here, which is debatable) the concerns are known to the devs ahead of full release, and steps can be taken to prevent those concerns from becoming reality, rather than waiting to see, having blind faith, and it becomes 'too late to change it' if there is some issue with the system

For example, concerns about SB WHM were raised in advance of SB's launch, about how Lily generation worked, about the effect of the Lilies, etc. SE told us to 'wait and see, it'll be good', and guess what, it was not good. The best indicator of future action is past action, and SE has shown multiple times when it comes to Job Design that when people say 'let them cook', they burn the kitchen down

[Hanzz96]

My biggest concert with Evolved mode seems that they're removing even more points of friction from the job's rotations and are not adding anything else to replace it.

They state repeatedly that they want Evolved mode to have more freeform rotations and freedom. And while freedom CAN introduce opportunity for skill expression if it includes the need to make several moment to moment decision, making things TOO freeform can just remove any friction and instead remove any depth the job can have. The main thing I love about playing a job and mastering it is learning how to work around its friction points.

Like, looking at DRG. Having its filler being a looping rotation of 7 buttons meant you could screw it up. If you pressed the wrong button at the wrong time, you were penalized, therefore there was a reward in a higher performance for players that could do it consistently. Evolve gets rid of that friction by making all of DRG's combo repeated press of a single button.

Even for positionals. While the penalty for messing up a positional is seemingly steeper now and there's more restriction for the flank positionals, the positionals being buttons separate from your combo and thus being able to be used whenever so long as you don't overcap removes a lot of friction compared to current positionals that have a set, rigid spot in your rotation. Assuming bosses don't start jumping all over the place and turning on a dime constantly, its pretty easy to find consistent spots to safely use your positionals since you have some room to hold them for those moments rather than being forced to use them at specific point in your rotation.

Yes friction has been removed! Bard could drop their dots if they weren't watching, they could override a proc, EA could drift costing you a free song proc, you could drift buffs so they no longer sync with your party. But that's all gone in what they showed. No buffs means a lack of reward or punishment for either syncing or not syncing with your party, there is now no reward for playing as a unit in this mmo.

You can't drift EA anyone because instead of being a 15s OGCD its a proc GCD just hit glowing button. Dots and RNG are GONE. You know those things bard was known for.

This is actually justb100% an easy mode and they can't hide it. If the aim is to get casual players intersted again the consquence will be losing a lot of high end players.

[Hanzz96]

Novel idea. We can wait patiently for the full details and release before we doomspeak our way into skewed expectations that will taint a potentially positive change for ourselves and others.

Posting speculation at this point is just complaining for the sake of having something to complain about.

Ahh yes the good old "don't give feedback because we don't have all the details" when SE showed us the early dev build to get feedback.

Never change FFXIV players.

[TeresaFortell]

This is actually justb100% an easy mode and they can't hide it. If the aim is to get casual players intersted again the consquence will be losing a lot of high end players.

Exactly how would it lose the high end players? Granted, I don’t enjoy it having the blm treatment, but I don’t think the friction would be the turning point, rather if that job commits less dps in an unideal composition.