Evolved Skills Feedback

[Mcg55ss]

I'll repeat what I said in other thread but to sum up, I'm not sold and I dont think this approach and evolved jobs doing more damage can be healthy in a game with scripted encounters.

It seems "evolved" may as well be called "basic" with the lack of management and while it has some cool actions there seems, so far, to be a rather shallow experience. I also don't see them addresing common complaints like the lack of skill expression.

Obviously we are in a "wait and see" situation since they haven't shown much but if I were to leave my feedback it would be "please, you are prunning too much and it seems to not be for the better" and "keep the cast times on healers and fix the 1 button spam problem"

Evolved doing more damage is the plan forever because with ALL new jobs being on evolved i expect reborn stays for 2-3 expansions then as more people play new jobs, get used to evolved and they get it refined to more what they want reborn will probably get thanos snapped out of existence so they don't have to worry about it anymore. I don't see a world where Reborn and Evolved last forever and with all new jobs going one way eventually the old play style will stop being supported.

[Supersnow845]

Healers are still an odd one with evolved vs reborn because healer damage doesn’t mean that much

Like if they don’t give SCH spreadlo in evolved people will 100% drop 3% of a SCH’s damage in order to use SCH’s current broken kit

[Wyldkat99]

It dosen't mean much in the CURRENT system. We don't know what is changing in the combat system outside of the job change.

[Supersnow845]

The thing is the reborn jobs still have to be playable

So SCH is still probably going to be the weird one because in order to make it strong enough to be playable from a damage perspective you open it up to its kit warping the game and shelving evolved SCH

Healers are the oddballs here because like even with the shown WHM if evolved does more damage there is still strong niches of cure 3 and the like to be taken into consideration as healer DPS is often something that can be sacrificed for utility

[Kirutsuki]

There's zero chance that they will design and balance two separate kits for 21 jobs until active development ends. It's a question of when, not if, reborn mode will be deprecated.

This might be true, the end goal is probably to get rid of Reborne mode.
But people are so quick to jump on the conclusion that Evolved mod is just going to be bad, without taking into consideration that it will be released in 8.0 and will be updated through out the following 2-3 years And beyond.
That's plenty of time to figure out whatever issues people might have with MT/OT or if it even needs adjusting. If the devs want to make DRK GNB and WAR off-tanks it's 100% their choice to do so.
I really dislike limiting development purely based on "its been like this 50 years". Let them cook and come up with new ideas for the game, limitations to what is the safe option is one of the reasons why people keep screaming job identity.

[Absurdity]

It dosen't mean much in the CURRENT system. We don't know what is changing in the combat system outside of the job change.

As Supersnow already said, it can't change too much because both modes will have to be able to complete the content.

On a different note, it would be quite ironic if they managed to make the current "reborn" gameplay fun again by accident when they have to adjust it for the removal of party buffs.

The thing is the reborn jobs still have to be playable

So SCH is still probably going to be the weird one because in order to make it strong enough to be playable from a damage perspective you open it up to its kit warping the game and shelving evolved SCH

Healers are the oddballs here because like even with the shown WHM if evolved does more damage there is still strong niches of cure 3 and the like to be taken into consideration as healer DPS is often something that can be sacrificed for utility

I'm also not quite convinced that the reborn mode on healers will end up with better DPS considering the massively reduced suite of oGCDs, even with the supposed "lossless" GCD healing.

This might be true, the end goal is probably to get rid of Reborne mode.
But people are so quick to jump on the conclusion that Evolved mod is just going to be bad, without taking into consideration that it will be released in 8.0 and will be updated through out the following 2-3 years And beyond.
That's plenty of time to figure out whatever issues people might have with MT/OT or if it even needs adjusting. If the devs want to make DRK GNB and WAR off-tanks it's 100% their choice to do so.
I really dislike limiting development purely based on "its been like this 50 years". Let them cook and come up with new ideas for the game, limitations to what is the safe option is one of the reasons why people keep screaming job identity.

Nobody is saying it's going to be bad as a definitive statement.
The problem is that what they've shown us so far looks pretty bad, and that's on them.

I am also not doing this whole "give them time" nonsense anymore. We have given them 7 years already, 3 expansions of increasingly stagnant mediocre gameplay.
This new mode has to be good on 8.0 release, no "wait 2-3 years until they've finally gotten it into a passable state".

I'm being hyper critical because we have, at best, 7 months to make the gameplay not suck for another expansion.
Or worse, potentially suck for the next 10 years if the system is fundamentally bad.

[Argantaelle]

But people are so quick to jump on the conclusion that Evolved mod is just going to be bad, without taking into consideration that it will be released in 8.0 and will be updated through out the following 2-3 years And beyond.
That's plenty of time to figure out whatever issues people might have...

I'd say only two words: EW SMN.

Back then players (especially SMN mains) hoped that SE created a basis they were going to build on. It's known how it ended.


P.S. It's difficult to create and maintain 44 (21x2 + 2 new) playable and well-balanced jobs; I'd say it's almost impossible, judging by the Evolved preview.

I fully expect most of the Evolved jobs to be on par with EW SMN with the same level of engagement, skill expression, and rotation complexity. (Somehow WHM looked even worse; I'd say it's some kind of accomplishment.)

Meanwhile, Reborn jobs tailored to the 2-min meta with their party buffs removed won't feel good either.

Ye, it's going to be fun.

[StriderShinryu]

The problem is that what they've shown us so far looks pretty bad, and that's on them.

Eh, I'd say what they've shown so far doesn't look bad at all. Most people seem to be reacting positively to it, or at least reacting with curiousity and questions. If you think it looks bad then that's fine, to each their own, but that appears far from the general consensus.

That said, I do agree that they can't just put out something and expect players to give them time to finesse the details. They do need to get it right basically on release, and I do think they should start answering some of the bigger questions like on tanking roles and healing design NOW. They shouldn't even be waiting for Berlin to do that.

[EaMett]

If Evolved mode works the way jobs do in PvP, this sounds like an absolute win.

In spite of the lowered button count, PvP jobs feel so much more skill expressive. The short cooldowns, unique skill interactions, and active decision making all keep me much more engaged than 1-2-3 spam, occasionally pressing 4 once or twice to spend gauge then dumping a bunch of bland 60-120 second DPS buttons into a burst window.

I think I'd like a few more buttons than what PvP has, because it is a tad low for PvE gameplay, but absolutely the same basic philosophy. If we get that I'll end up LOVING this.

This seems like a good compromise. If you want a more challenging job, you can have that. You won't necessarily deal more damage, but i'm more than okay with that. If you prefer things simple, you can play Reborn mode and have things the way they are now. Everyone is happy.

PVP content isn't scripted. I agree with you on the premise that pve encounters become more random. Then we're talking. But their desire to retain reborn rotations and just general track record make me think otherwise and concern me.

[OMGJesuis66]

People really are concerned about less Skill Expression, when Evolved mode allows you to take different routes in split-second choices, unlike the current system that forces you to press the same button sequence precisely every 2 min?

Because overall, the 'overcasualization' literally just opened a door for actual complexity to be brought into the game, so this is genuinely interesting to me how there are so many people worried.