Death Magic

[ForteNightshade]

Yoshida has already said numerous times now they don't want the WoL associated with anything negative in terms of job identity. This is why Necromancer, Thief and etc have repeatedly been shot down. Even Dark Knight's lore in other FF games is a lot, well, darker than the vigilante portrayal XIV has.

So while yes, death magic doesn't have to be evil. The fact most associate it with that connotation means they won't touch it.

[Littledeathgirl]

Yoshida has already said numerous times now they don't want the WoL associated with anything negative in terms of job identity. This is why Necromancer, Thief and etc have repeatedly been shot down. Even Dark Knight's lore in other FF games is a lot, well, darker than the vigilante portrayal XIV has.

So while yes, death magic doesn't have to be evil. The fact most associate it with that connotation means they won't touch it.

I mean they can be made not negative, like they have done with reaper and technically black mage in ff lore. Regardless yes Necromancy is what it technically falls under like my favorite character ever and highly relatable Chloe Saunder, necromancy it just another form of magic that uses the dead. Yes admitly most characters look down on necromancy but that doesn't make it negative or bad, if anything necromancy is the purest form of magic its about the balance completely.

[ForsakenRoe]

Yoshida has already said numerous times now they don't want the WoL associated with anything negative in terms of job identity. This is why Necromancer, Thief and etc have repeatedly been shot down. Even Dark Knight's lore in other FF games is a lot, well, darker than the vigilante portrayal XIV has.

So while yes, death magic doesn't have to be evil. The fact most associate it with that connotation means they won't touch it.

The whole point of several Jobs, and their associated questline, is 'hey this Job is really bad and dangerous, but you're showing how it can be used for good'. Like BLM is the Job responsible for half of a Calamity. WHM is the Job responsible for the other half. RPR literally summons voidsent which is like... one of the biggest 'don't do that' moves in FFXIV lore. DRK is viewed by the Ishgardians as 'heretics', but DRKs bring justice to those who the regular 'laws' can't apply to. WAR can very easily become an uncontrollable weapon that destroys the surrounding area in its misguided rage. I don't know where the limits of SMN's summons are in terms of power level, but IIRC the practice (in Allagan times) was very taboo because of the danger it posed (Tempering), etc.

A Necromancer could just as easily be done by FFXIV, with lore being written via Job quests as like... 'Most Necromancers use Death-Magic to try and extend their lives, attain immortality, etc. You, applying the 'true' purpose of Necromancy, bring peace to the souls of the departed who still had some lingering regrets they could not leave unresolved'. So now you have the current Necro's we've seen (the POTD guy, etc) as 'misusing the power of Life and Death', and you are a... slightly less immoral Necromancer. Just as 'morally grey-zone' as BLM currently falls into. It would give opportunities for very varied (moral-alignment-wise) quests. On the one hand, a very positive aligned quest 'bridge the gap for two people who were in love in life, so they can tell each other how much they love one another one last time'. On the other hand, a much more morally-dubious quest of 'helping the spirit of a victim of a horrible crime, by tracking down and exacting revenge upon the perpetrator (presumably by killing them)'

I think the main reason, is less about the appearance of it being 'evil', and more about the cultural sensitivity towards the concept of 'death' in Japan. They use 'Yon' instead of 'Shi' for the number 4, Hotels might skip over the 4th Floor (usually naming it 3A or just skipping straight to 5), etc. TBH I'm kinda surprised Necro's getting put in Occult Crescent

[RedLolly]

I said it as a joke in the BST thread, but Necromancer feels more like perfect fodder for a limited job.

White Mage's job quests have done a lot of extra leg work showing that it's a craft that is just one step to the right of Necromancy, and the main Necromancer we've met outside of those quests was Edda, the healer that lost her mind in grief over the death of her lover. Oh, and the EX versions of the original ARR primals had a lot of blood and bone sacrifice to make such powerful versions of those fights exist, so they's that, too.

BUT THEN, we have the Gentle Dead Men and other friendly zombies from the Hildibrand storylines, and the Continental Circus of friendly(?) voidsent that run the All Saint's Wake events that just sort of exist in a middle ground and are meant to be a bit of a joke.

I feel FFXIV would need to go VERY hard in vibe of the latter to make Necromancer work with pre-established lore.

[Littledeathgirl]

The whole point of several Jobs, and their associated questline, is 'hey this Job is really bad and dangerous, but you're showing how it can be used for good'. Like BLM is the Job responsible for half of a Calamity. WHM is the Job responsible for the other half. RPR literally summons voidsent which is like... one of the biggest 'don't do that' moves in FFXIV lore. DRK is viewed by the Ishgardians as 'heretics', but DRKs bring justice to those who the regular 'laws' can't apply to. WAR can very easily become an uncontrollable weapon that destroys the surrounding area in its misguided rage. I don't know where the limits of SMN's summons are in terms of power level, but IIRC the practice (in Allagan times) was very taboo because of the danger it posed (Tempering), etc.

A Necromancer could just as easily be done by FFXIV, with lore being written via Job quests as like... 'Most Necromancers use Death-Magic to try and extend their lives, attain immortality, etc. You, applying the 'true' purpose of Necromancy, bring peace to the souls of the departed who still had some lingering regrets they could not leave unresolved'. So now you have the current Necro's we've seen (the POTD guy, etc) as 'misusing the power of Life and Death', and you are a... slightly less immoral Necromancer. Just as 'morally grey-zone' as BLM currently falls into. It would give opportunities for very varied (moral-alignment-wise) quests. On the one hand, a very positive aligned quest 'bridge the gap for two people who were in love in life, so they can tell each other how much they love one another one last time'. On the other hand, a much more morally-dubious quest of 'helping the spirit of a victim of a horrible crime, by tracking down and exacting revenge upon the perpetrator (presumably by killing them)'

I think the main reason, is less about the appearance of it being 'evil', and more about the cultural sensitivity towards the concept of 'death' in Japan. They use 'Yon' instead of 'Shi' for the number 4, Hotels might skip over the 4th Floor (usually naming it 3A or just skipping straight to 5), etc. TBH I'm kinda surprised Necro's getting put in Occult Crescent

I’m going to be a bit mean but if your culture has an issue with death then screw ur culture, so that argument in my eyes is just meha who care.

As for it I mean if they can have all these positive bs things they can have something darker like necromancy… or if not a job in itself make it a part of side job within something like reaper or summoner replacing egos with undead minions and stuff.

The culture arguments are always bs cuz death and darker things are always around us and should be embrace for pretty awesome peace it is always brings me comfort and joy so I don’t see y it can’t for all it’s pretty peaceful and relaxing. People are weird. (side note) im starting to question rather i should game at all at this point tbh it ends the same anyways on any game debating rather or not my time rather spent in my books and places i enjoy irl

[RedLolly]

There's a YouTube channel called "Ask a Mortician" that takes a very death positive angle in her videos. She's really fun, educational, and classy in her job, and yes, she's a licensed mortician.


Basically the whole "evil" point of Necromancer is that death, and more specifically the dead person's remains and their wishes for their remains while alive, are disrespected for personal gain. It's not that death is feared or anything. It really boils down to not caring about who this skeleton/zombie was when they were a still a full person.

It would be funny to have a person say they want to be reanimated after death, but that's all it would take. Consent.

[Littledeathgirl]

There's a YouTube channel called "Ask a Mortician" that takes a very death positive angle in her videos. She's really fun, educational, and classy in her job, and yes, she's a licensed mortician.


Basically the whole "evil" point of Necromancer is that death, and more specifically the dead person's remains and their wishes for their remains while alive, are disrespected for personal gain. It's not that death is feared or anything. It really boils down to not caring about who this skeleton/zombie was when they were a still a full person.

It would be funny to have a person say they want to be reanimated after death, but that's all it would take. Consent.

She sounds awesome, is that her exact channel name? Maybe I should follow her and it might give me a better idea of how to do things in a more.. healthy way i think thats the term people say to me alot.

[Reginald_Cain]

Death magic has been pretty polarized in final fantasy and its either super op like in ff13 or useless outside incredibly niche scenarios.

Reaper handles the idea of a job empowered by death through its debuff and guage system basically being us feeding aether of the dead to our avatar which in turn shares more potent powers back to us.

Not only that but crest of borrowed time being a selfi shield that regens the party upon shattering is in tone with a job that also can control when it and allies can die.

[RedLolly]

She sounds awesome, is that her exact channel name? Maybe I should follow her and it might give me a better idea of how to do things in a more.. healthy way i think thats the term people say to me alot.

Caitlin Doughty is her name and the channel is @askamortician. She does a lot of mini docs on historical deaths, options, legality, emotional weight, and the history behind different ways people choose to be cared for post mortem. She got me thinking and made me conclude I want zero chemicals involved with my body. Grass and raw wood casket, straight into the ground.

It's good stuff.

[Mikey_R]

The whole point of several Jobs, and their associated questline, is 'hey this Job is really bad and dangerous, but you're showing how it can be used for good'. Like BLM is the Job responsible for half of a Calamity. WHM is the Job responsible for the other half. RPR literally summons voidsent which is like... one of the biggest 'don't do that' moves in FFXIV lore. DRK is viewed by the Ishgardians as 'heretics', but DRKs bring justice to those who the regular 'laws' can't apply to. WAR can very easily become an uncontrollable weapon that destroys the surrounding area in its misguided rage. I don't know where the limits of SMN's summons are in terms of power level, but IIRC the practice (in Allagan times) was very taboo because of the danger it posed (Tempering), etc.

I think it is pertinent to make a distinction between jobs that are perceived as 'taboo' or 'bad' and ones that would be completely immortal. Starting with Black Mage. Black Magick is not considered immoral, however, it is considered taboo. One of the main reasons for this is, as you said, related to the Calamity of Water caused by the War of the Magi. However this is not the only reason, as White Magick is not taboo, it is highly restricted, but it is not taboo. So, being a cause of the War is not the only reason. The main reason then comes from the destructive nature of Black Magick. With the war demanding every increasingly strong spells, the worry was a spell would be made that was so powerful, it could destroy the world. That is the main reason research into Black Magick was made illegal. However, it is not immoral.


Going onto Dark Knight. They used to be Knights of Ishgard, it is just the corruption they saw in the higher ranks caused them to leave and be protectors for those that could not defend themselves. They might have been seen as heretical, but they were fighting against the corruption. If you want a real world parallel, imagine someone abusing their power to belittle and abuse someone they are meant to be protecting, you would want them dismissed from their post. Dark Knights are the ones 'dismissing' the corruption from their posts. Don't do anything wrong to abuse your power and you do not have to fear a Dark Knight coming after you.

Going onto Summoner, admittedly, I don't remember all the nuances of the lore behind Summoner, however, I do not believe EGIs can temper people. Moreover, they were a massive part of the Allagan Empire's military units, where their downfall only came from people abusing the power to further their own ambitions over the Empire's. This lead to the mistrust of Summoners where they were hunted down and killed. Summoner itself is not bad, but it was the abuse of power from those given it that was the issue.

Reaper is then in a completely different class to everything else. The act of forming a pact with a voidsent is again, a very very taboo thing to do, however, I do not believe it is seen as immoral. There is also the fact the pact was made that the voidsent would help you, if you provided it with Aether to feed on. This is definitely the closet we have got to what I would consider an 'evil' job, however, again, I do not believe it is classed as immoral.

A necromancer on the other hand, one that raises the dead. The entire second half of Dawntrail story is essentially about life and death and how it is not a good thing. In order to bring someone back from the dead, you need a soul, which means you need to take the life from something else that is living. Necromancy was already considered highly immoral by the standards of the people of Etheirys and is about the only thing every populace agrees on on a world wide scale. The fact we also now have lore that tells us why it is so bad and the consequences behind it further embeds that any form of Necromancy, that is, bringing back the dead, is just not going to work, especially for the player character that is meant to be the hero of the world. Having the hero purposefully kill people to fuel their undead army is not going to sit well with anyone and you are then the bigger evil that the one you are trying to take down. No other job that has been released has this much stigma attached to it and for this reason, I do not see a world where they would ever release Necromancer and I do not see how they could twist the lore to make it feasible either.

Hopefully this helps to differentiate between jobs that skirt the line between allowed and taboo and Necromancer that is considered completely immoral and evil.