Crafter and Gatherer Identity

[MisterNublet]

I think adding on to the current specialty system and limiting omnicrafting wouldn't be fun and removes the entire point of the jobs system in the first place
Specialties need to be reworked into proper crafting jobs without any timegates so you can have a job crystal for every crafter and gatherer
I think the main way to make crafting more fun is to give the different crafters more differences and mechanics instead of just restricting the whole system and making it more tedious

Which becomes completely pointless as soon as the stat breakpoints are figured out and macros are set up.

The whole reason why crafting is boring is because it has become too easy. Everyone and their dog can be omnicraft and produce the best gear without having to work with other crafters.

Turning every job into a Specialist contradicts itself. When every job is a specialist, no job is. That is the whole reason why it is limited in the first place. That limitation needs to be expanded so players are required to begin trading goods with each other to produce gear and items.

[LanceSummers]

Nope.

In most MMOs, crafting and gathering are important parts of the economy. They can also be genuinely fun systems to engage with. In FFXIV, crafting probably peaked during Heavensward. Since then, it has gradually become too easy and too predictable.

I understand that some players simply don’t enjoy crafting. For those players, I wouldn’t mind having a “just craft it” button for normal-quality items.

However, when it comes to HQ crafting, I really wish the system would move away from its current level of predictability. Right now, macros can guarantee a 100% HQ result, and on top of that there are bots, solvers, and plugins that can automate crafting or gathering entirely. When anyone can produce HQ items without even thinking about it, it ends up hurting the economy.

Personally, I would prefer a crafting system where players actually need to adapt to item conditions and make decisions during the process, rather than relying on fully predictable macros. If that means only a small percentage of players can reliably craft HQ items, that’s not necessarily a problem. People could choose to use normal-quality gear and food, learn the crafting system properly, or simply buy HQ items from players who enjoy crafting.

That kind of system would give real value back to crafting.

From what I have gathered, it seems that crafting suffers a major issue of not having proper islands of content to appeal to different kinds of crafters.

Crafting needs to be divided into content islands for casual, midcore and hardcore crafters. I'm sure there are many ways to do this so feel free to suggest some while I take some time to think

TLDR; crafting needs to be divided into Crafting (Normal), Crafting (Advanced), and Crafting (Savage)

[LanceSummers]

Which becomes completely pointless as soon as the stat breakpoints are figured out and macros are set up.

The whole reason why crafting is boring is because it has become too easy. Everyone and their dog can be omnicraft and produce the best gear without having to work with other crafters.

Turning every job into a Specialist contradicts itself. When every job is a specialist, no job is. That is the whole reason why it is limited in the first place. That limitation needs to be expanded so players are required to begin trading goods with each other to produce gear and items.

I get what you're saying, but imo the whole issue with the specialist system is that the crafters are all exactly the same, so there's not really a favorite you can pick that feels different like for a combat job, you just pick whatever one can craft the stuff is best for your favorite combat jobs

Another issue is that specialist is almost entirely used for crafting untradeable items, like crafting relics... Not really much of a point in having it if its only purpose is to timelock crafts you can only make use of yourself

The system would need an entire rework inside and out, and how the system itself works as well as everything around it works would need to be reconsidered

[GraceHorizon]

From what I have gathered, it seems that crafting suffers a major issue of not having proper islands of content to appeal to different kinds of crafters.

Crafting needs to be divided into content islands for casual, midcore and hardcore crafters. I'm sure there are many ways to do this so feel free to suggest some while I take some time to think

TLDR; crafting needs to be divided into Crafting (Normal), Crafting (Advanced), and Crafting (Savage)

At least in terms of difficulty it sorta is divided into tiers. Non-master crafts (that is, leveling recipes) are Normal, master foods and potions are Advanced, master combat gear is a bit higher (EX I guess?), and expert recipes are Savage. You could even argue that glamour items are an easier difficulty because there’s no need to get HQ.

[LanceSummers]

At least in terms of difficulty it sorta is divided into tiers. Non-master crafts (that is, leveling recipes) are Normal, master foods and potions are Advanced, master combat gear is a bit higher (EX I guess?), and expert recipes are Savage. You could even argue that glamour items are an easier difficulty because there’s no need to get HQ.

Yes, but if you want casual crafting to be made easier as you said, then this system would have to be reworked
I also think that Square Enix really doesn't do as much with Expert Recipes as they could, while their implementation is fine as is I just want there to be more content centered around Expert Recipes that isn't only furniture or relics
Like, we have zero expert recipe gear recipes in the game... Why?

[LanceSummers]

Nope.

In most MMOs, crafting and gathering are important parts of the economy. They can also be genuinely fun systems to engage with. In FFXIV, crafting probably peaked during Heavensward. Since then, it has gradually become too easy and too predictable.

I understand that some players simply don’t enjoy crafting. For those players, I wouldn’t mind having a “just craft it” button for normal-quality items.

However, when it comes to HQ crafting, I really wish the system would move away from its current level of predictability. Right now, macros can guarantee a 100% HQ result, and on top of that there are bots, solvers, and plugins that can automate crafting or gathering entirely. When anyone can produce HQ items without even thinking about it, it ends up hurting the economy.

Personally, I would prefer a crafting system where players actually need to adapt to item conditions and make decisions during the process, rather than relying on fully predictable macros. If that means only a small percentage of players can reliably craft HQ items, that’s not necessarily a problem. People could choose to use normal-quality gear and food, learn the crafting system properly, or simply buy HQ items from players who enjoy crafting.

That kind of system would give real value back to crafting.

This is what this thread was originally made to suggest a fix for to an extent. I think crafting has suffered most in the game's strive to simplify its systems. The crafting classes are now all the exact same, there is no mechanical difference between them.

A rework to add different mechanics and abilities to each crafter would go a long way to make crafting no longer the macro hell it is today. Adjusting the crafting system itself and reworking the crafting classes to have an identity again are things that I think should be done at the same time.

[ForsakenRoe]

A rework to add different mechanics and abilities to each crafter would go a long way to make crafting no longer the macro hell it is today. Adjusting the crafting system itself and reworking the crafting classes to have an identity again are things that I think should be done at the same time.

We kinda sorta had that ages ago, in ARR and to an extent HW. I can see a world where, for example, ARM crafting is more reliant on making use of Rapid Synthesis (IE a trait to make it guaranteed to succeed with some condition, such as 'after using Observe'), and GSM is more reliant on the old Maker's Mark/Flawless Synthesis gameplay, etc (IE a trait where, if Basic Synthesis is the first action used, consecutive Basic Synthesis uses cost 0 Durability until another action is used and the chain is broken). But CrossClassing (and recipes having identical Progress/Quality requirements across every Crafter) made it so that every Job just used the same rotation, and some of those rotations were a lot less fun (TL note: took forever to execute) than others, such as any part of HW where we had to do a Maker's Mark opener with any more than 30 Flawless Synthesis uses

Specialist actions could also be retro-fitted to become a way to make this kind of stuff more interesting. Rather than saying 'you cannot craft X recipe unless you're Specialist', having it as 'you can try to craft any recipe you like, Specialist just gives you a bit more stats and access to some new actions that might help you'. Like Heart and Soul is pretty neat, but it's not as big a gamechanger as being able to abuse how Whistle worked to start a recipe with full CP and 1-synth-from-completion Progress. So I'd like to see the current gameplay remain as is for those who want to make use of that, while adding a way for Specialist to be a way for manual-crafting enthusiasts to pull off crafts with far lower stats than a macro-crafter would need

[GraceHorizon]

Yes, but if you want casual crafting to be made easier as you said, then this system would have to be reworked
I also think that Square Enix really doesn't do as much with Expert Recipes as they could, while their implementation is fine as is I just want there to be more content centered around Expert Recipes that isn't only furniture or relics
Like, we have zero expert recipe gear recipes in the game... Why?

I’m sorry, I’m standing here in shock that someone on this forum engaged constructively with something I said.

I’d go for more expert recipes, used for more kinds of things. Especially if there was less emphasis on the pre-crafts than current master recipes. Making lots of HQ pre-crafts are my particular boredom point. (Well, that and grinding out or buying hundreds of materia for the essentially mandatory overmelding.)

[Kaurhz]

I’m sorry, I’m standing here in shock that someone on this forum engaged constructively with something I said.

I’d go for more expert recipes, used for more kinds of things. Especially if there was less emphasis on the pre-crafts than current master recipes. Making lots of HQ pre-crafts are my particular boredom point. (Well, that and grinding out or buying hundreds of materia for the essentially mandatory overmelding.)

IMO, they are better putting the difficulty or engagement behind the abilities rather than on trying to turn master recipes into expert recipes... Which does have a couple of problems.. (and I say this as someone who does expert recipes)

First being, that more easily and accessible experts, e.g., like those in Cosmic or past relics have still been heavily macro-able, and beyond a certain point with that you just use high quality to substitute for the need for RNG (e.g., not being able to guarantee on NQ base material alone) -- Which is the direction they have gone now, versus in past expansions... E.g., don't improve the system but inflate the numbers to where the process is elongated

Short of removing that ability to HQ requisite materials, you won't actually accomplish much, as the priority will still be on "How do we guarantee this result" -- and Square Enix will still look toward that fact.

Like, I think for crafting you want to put the emphasis on the abilities, rather than, for example inflated modifiers and material conditions, and personally my opinion is that experts are a larger RNG check than what they are an ability check.. Sure you won't be successful if you don't know what you're doing... But in the same vein you can do everything right across 1 expert recipe, but still have less favorable RNG, e.g., Rapids failing, or badly timed conditions... In the same vein... You can make plenty of mistakes, but a well-timed Pliant or two will offset a massive amount of that ability-use. Edit: This of course being the assumption that they would take macroing off the table.

This is why I will always harp on about things like Whistle While You Work (as so much of the success was placed on the player), rather than other factors... Which having been apart of that era, and experts... I would actually pick Whistle While You Work every day of the week over experts... Like, you could feel somewhat engaged even with easier recipes... and with the exception of the Ala Mhigan crafted gear, the recipes were generally on the lower side.

[Oizen]

There is 1 crafter job, a bunch of clones of it, and 2 gatherer jobs (with 2 clones there).

I'd honestly rather see them all deleted.